I personally do not believe in god but don't mind people whodo.Unless or course they pressure me into their religion.
God real or not?
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Guest_stubblehamster
, Feb 15 2005 12:22 AM
6399 replies to this topic
#2701
Guest_Jounouchi Katsuya
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Posted 19 October 2005 - 02:25 AM
#2702
Guest_Kem the Logician
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Posted 19 October 2005 - 02:42 AM
Dinosaurs are mentioned within The Bible, they just aren't referred to as dinosaurs considering that the term was created after The Bible was written. And while there isn't any evidence that proves Gods existance, there isn't any evidence to justify that He doesn't exist. "Pft, there is evidence that He doesn't exist. I can't see him!" And you can't see air, but you believe it is there, right?Unlike what some of the above posters have said, I think that not believing in a divine ruler (be it God, Jaweh, Allah, or whatever entity in question) because it cannot be proven is a fine excuse. There are scientific explanations for much of the world's being, and a lot of religious material is contradicted by scientific findings (eg dinosaurs, which are not mentioned in any religious texts I have read). Sure, you can claim that the divine being placed these here as part of its divine plan, but what would that accomplish? The deity would have more followers if there weren't evidence against its existence.To clarify another issue, I do 'believe' in Jesus. I believe he was a carpenter born in the middle east around 2000 years ago. I just don't believe he had any divine significance.
Time is just a standard set that is determined by a planets revolving around the sun and by its revolving on its axis. So yeah, there really isn't any way to determine time outside of the universe, which may mean that time is a concept exclusive to this universe.and time is all relative if you are talking dinosaurs.. a day could be millions of years in Gods eyes
Edited by kemutsemu, 19 October 2005 - 02:46 AM.
#2703
Guest_nessmann
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Posted 19 October 2005 - 02:43 AM
yes i dont like it when people do that. and televangalists make me mad though i believe strongly in godI personally do not believe in god but don't mind people whodo.Unless or course they pressure me into their religion.
#2704
Guest_rx-78-2
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Posted 19 October 2005 - 04:13 AM
Look, all of you guya have some really good points, Alot of you are looking really deep into why god does not exist but your not looking deeper: why you ask' because you can't! I see you guys that don't belive in god saying that we all were created from some primortial uows, or bacterria. Okay so where did that come from? The answer would be atoms.Okay so far the smallist subatomic spec of dust would be your protons, nutrons, & electrons. now where do you go from there? now man has figured it out! This is because only god only knows everything. The bible says that we will never understand all that our creator has done like why did the big bang happen, how we happened. it all goes back to god.We all know you can't make something out of nothing right? so why do so many people believe that the big bang theroy happened from nothing? In the first book of the bible it is writin that man at the apple from the tree of knowledge. This knowledge later helped us create what we see today but it still cannot prove that god exist or does not exist.Many people don't think that god has ever done anything for you. Thats because the idea of sell is given toyou by satan which we are all born with. The only way to get rid of this way of thinking is to actually exept christ in your life & glorify him in everything you do.I myself am a born again christian. It all started when 7 of my relatives died within 2 months of each other. I thought if there is a god why is he taking everything important away from me. but I later was given the sight to understand that my reletives were not taken from me but where taken to a better place. many of you might say look at this freak he thiks he spoke to god. But I did, & when it happened i had not only a spiritual feeling but a strong physical feeling as well. it was so strong that I felt that I was going to break through a wall in my house. So before you try to understand what comes next in life, try to exept christ and let him live in you .
Edited by rx-78-2, 19 October 2005 - 04:35 AM.
#2705
Guest_discostu54
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Posted 19 October 2005 - 06:42 AM
I understand religions clearly, and to refute your argument about knowledge of dinosaurs not being accessible 1500 years ago when the bible was written, Western Civilization did not know that the Americas existed 1500 years ago. Should we ignore discoveries and still pretend they don't exist?"No one would know what does that divine plan is about..." if I interpreted that correctly, that means that no religion is definite. Since no priests/ministers/clergymen preaching a specific religion have ever died, all religion is based on conjecture. Sure, some people may be right, but they might not. Nobody knows for sure.As for an example of evidence, I was simply referring to geology and prehistory that we have knowledge of now. A lot of the bible is based around that culture, as you said; cultures change. It's not acceptable by society's standards to cut off the hands of a thief if he steals anymore. There's a lot in religous text that isn't really applicable.Well...to tell you about the dinnosaurs....in that period..I think they did know nothing about the dinnosaurs....and the bible was finished like 1500 years ago...so...No one would know what does that divine plan is about...(If God told you...my mistake..) until we go to the heaven..."deity would have more followers if there weren't evidence against its existence."Of which evidence are you talking about? give an example please...remember, the bible was written in an other period and culture...And finally...you believe in a Jesus...that just was a carpenteer? (actually he wasn't, he learned from his dad, Jose(don't know the translation), that was one ). Jesus had a divine significance...he was the sun of God, God as a human....living all the tentations we have, suffering all we suffer and finally dying as we die, like humans...but he resucited 3 days later of his dead not as a human can do...Only that...please ask I you don't understand something about the catholic religion (that can be answerd by a human, you know what I mean), somebody will answer you
give me a chemical formula for God, and you'll have me satisfied. Also, referring to the dinosaurs, it depends on how you interpret the Bible. A lot of the bible is metaphorical, but is sometimes taken literally. The number 40, for example, is an allusion to an unmeasurable amount of time. Wandering the desert for 40 years, 40 days and 40 nights...it comes up a lot in the bible. Logically, the bible could incorporate everything that geology has disproven about it metaphorically. However, that could also prove that the Bible is just science put into poetic forms.Sorry if this is just babbling and making no sense. I tend to do that."Pft, there is evidence that He doesn't exist. I can't see him!" And you can't see air, but you believe it is there, right?
Edited by discostu54, 19 October 2005 - 06:48 AM.
#2706
Guest_Erachima
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Posted 19 October 2005 - 09:23 AM
Or the Bible could be right, and evolution could be a totally wacked out and illogical theory that contradicts reality and requires a God to start everything in the first place.I can't believe this topic is still going.
#2707
Guest_eygammer
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Posted 19 October 2005 - 09:00 PM
ok let just look at cults its same thing. if you tell a follower of a cult that the stuff that their leader is not real and he is just tricking them. would they belive you? No. so i belive that long ago he was just a cult leader that died before he could rip the ppl off. but i know that i can never convince you guys of that just like the family of now a days cult follower cant convince them of it. so ill stop trying.
#2708
Guest_MajinBror
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Posted 19 October 2005 - 09:12 PM
Noone knows if God exist if you belive that God exist then God exist for you
#2709
Guest_Missing
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Posted 19 October 2005 - 09:48 PM
rx-78-2 your reply was awesome..I totally agree with you
??????-->God there you have....how can you ask for a chemical formula of God?! Why is it so difficult to believe in something so simple and so complicated at the same time? 40 is the number of preparation, just sayingScience into poetic forms? which kind of science is see Jesus dying?I understand religions clearly, and to refute your argument about knowledge of dinosaurs not being accessible 1500 years ago when the bible was written, Western Civilization did not know that the Americas existed 1500 years ago. Should we ignore discoveries and still pretend they don't exist?"No one would know what does that divine plan is about..." if I interpreted that correctly, that means that no religion is definite. Since no priests/ministers/clergymen preaching a specific religion have ever died, all religion is based on conjecture. Sure, some people may be right, but they might not. Nobody knows for sure.As for an example of evidence, I was simply referring to geology and prehistory that we have knowledge of now. A lot of the bible is based around that culture, as you said; cultures change. It's not acceptable by society's standards to cut off the hands of a thief if he steals anymore. There's a lot in religous text that isn't really applicable.Well...to tell you about the dinnosaurs....in that period..I think they did know nothing about the dinnosaurs....and the bible was finished like 1500 years ago...so...No one would know what does that divine plan is about...(If God told you...my mistake..) until we go to the heaven..."deity would have more followers if there weren't evidence against its existence."Of which evidence are you talking about? give an example please...remember, the bible was written in an other period and culture...And finally...you believe in a Jesus...that just was a carpenteer? (actually he wasn't, he learned from his dad, Jose(don't know the translation), that was one ). Jesus had a divine significance...he was the sun of God, God as a human....living all the tentations we have, suffering all we suffer and finally dying as we die, like humans...but he resucited 3 days later of his dead not as a human can do...Only that...please ask I you don't understand something about the catholic religion (that can be answerd by a human, you know what I mean), somebody will answer you
give me a chemical formula for God, and you'll have me satisfied. Also, referring to the dinosaurs, it depends on how you interpret the Bible. A lot of the bible is metaphorical, but is sometimes taken literally. The number 40, for example, is an allusion to an unmeasurable amount of time. Wandering the desert for 40 years, 40 days and 40 nights...it comes up a lot in the bible. Logically, the bible could incorporate everything that geology has disproven about it metaphorically. However, that could also prove that the Bible is just science put into poetic forms.Sorry if this is just babbling and making no sense. I tend to do that."Pft, there is evidence that He doesn't exist. I can't see him!" And you can't see air, but you believe it is there, right?
#2710
Guest_Hypershell
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Posted 19 October 2005 - 10:14 PM
Do I believe in God? Yes, definitely. Why? Because I think something greater than any human has been looking out for me. I look back at my life, and see way too many points where there was potential for things to go seriously wrong. Too often for me to think it's just dumb luck.About the whole Creation vs. Evolution thing, I don't know, and I'm not going to pretend I do. The Biblical account may or may not have been meant to be taken literally. No one short of God himself witnessed it, not even Moses, the one who wrote Genesis. As God said to Job, "Where were you when I laid the Earth's foundation?"No scientist was there either. I've always had an interest in science since I was a kid, dinosaurs especially. Any dating of the prehistoric past is based on the assumption that natural processes take place at a constant rate. That's been disproven by dating newly-formed rocks from volcanic eruptions. Does that mean scientific reasearch is invalid? Certainly not, it provides valuable insight. But often times, what we perceive as written-in-stone isn't always correct, as we find out whenever new discoveries are made.Dinosaurs are not specifically mentioned in the Bible. It simply speaks of large wonderous animals from time to time, but the descriptions lack detail, so they could be anything.Discostu54, asking for the chemical formula for God is like asking for a binary code for the human body. There is none, humans created computer languages, therefore the human body is from outside of that realm. Likewise, God is from outside of the realm of chemistry.
Edited by Hypershell, 19 October 2005 - 10:15 PM.
#2711
Guest_discostu54
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Posted 19 October 2005 - 10:15 PM
I was kidding about the chemical formula for God; it's what I like to call a 'joke'. I'm sorry if you don't believe in jokes, but I'll respect that and leave you to debate their existence, just as I am debating the existence of a God.As for science into poetic forms, think about it. There are light "waves", "black holes", magnetic "fields"...are any of these things really the things they say they are? Light waves share little in common with the undulating waves of the ocean, a "black hole" is still not entirely understandable, but there's a chance that it is neither black nor a hole, and magnetic fields have no resemblance to the corn fields I see in farms. It's really however you interpret it. When the bible uses the number "40", I don't interpret it literally, for example. The "garden of eden" could just be an archetype, not representing an actual garden but rather a sort of paradise.As for the science of Jesus dying, most people would die after being crucified. I'm not sure if I understood that question fully. Anyways, it's entirely up to interpretation. I could claim that there is a god, and that it is a cheese sandwich, and that the Earth is a piece of god fallen from the original sandwich, with bread forming the land and cheese forming the oceans. It all depends on how you see the world around you. I, personally, do not see the world as something that was created by any being or human incarnation of this being. If I had been brought up differently or had a different thought process, maybe I'd see it from a Christian point of view. Until then, I'm happy to hear people's arguments??????-->God there you have....how can you ask for a chemical formula of God?! Why is it so difficult to believe in something so simple and so complicated at the same time? 40 is the number of preparation, just sayingScience into poetic forms? which kind of science is see Jesus dying?
Once again, I curse the internet for its inability to convey sarcasm.asking for the chemical formula for God is like asking for a binary code for the human body...
Edited by discostu54, 19 October 2005 - 10:16 PM.
#2712
Guest_Missing
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Posted 20 October 2005 - 12:02 AM
I know what a joke is but I don't think that in a topic so important as this you can do that....It's hard to change somebody's mind being 13, and more if you can't express exactly what you want to say(because of my first language, spanish) but I'm trying my best...Let's see....."As for science into poetic forms, think about it. There are light "waves", "black holes", magnetic "fields"...are any of these things really the things they say they are? Light waves share little in common with the undulating waves of the ocean, a "black hole" is still not entirely understandable, but there's a chance that it is neither black nor a hole, and magnetic fields have no resemblance to the corn fields I see in farms. It's really however you interpret it. When the bible uses the number "40", I don't interpret it literally, for example. The "garden of eden" could just be an archetype, not representing an actual garden but rather a sort of paradise."?, you relate the bible with science because of that? well, according to your point of view yes..but...you know...It's the bible, they're talking about Jesus's words according to the apostols...not of science...the biblic texts are trying to teach you something with examples Jesus gave...nothing of science...I don't think the people made the bible to say some science stuff..
#2713
Guest_Kem the Logician
Guest_Kem the Logician
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Posted 20 October 2005 - 05:25 AM
**too many quotes** Yeap, alot of The Bible's not litteral mainly because many of the writers perfered to get points across in parables. I'm not quite sure what you mean by poetic science. As for the divine plan, no one knows what it's all about and until God reveals Himself to us, it'll stay that way. The priesthood's supposed to lead the Church and tend to the flock, not prophesize or declare manifest-destiny. *Stares at the Catholic Church*
Edited by aoiblue, 20 October 2005 - 05:51 AM.
#2714
Guest_discostu54
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Posted 20 October 2005 - 06:29 AM
That's kind of what I'm trying to get across, kemutsu. I tried to stray away from the science idea, as the bible doesn't really deal with that (just a little meaningless connection). I was just trying to get the point across that the bible may not be entirely literal. I'm kind of regretting bringing science into this; I'm actually looking at this right now entirely from a philisophical stance. As for you, Missing, I think you're doing very well on your English, and I'm also sorry that I don't take the issue of God as seriously as some others. The whole "science in the bible" argument is kind of irrelevant anyway; I don't even remember what provoked it.Religion is used to explain unknown to a culture; the more we know, the less we can rely on religion to answer our problems. This is mainly what I was getting across with the whole "science" thing. It also explains my lightheartedness on this issue; with so many things in the world today able to be explained, there aren't as many things that need questioning. There is still, of course, death (as many people have mentioned, this is a big one for religion), and there is some questionable earthly history due to no clear records (For example, I'm almost certain that there actually was a set of stone tablets with the 10 commandments engraved in them, dating from around the time of Moses [because at one point they were stored in the high Jewish temple in the middle-east], but there's nothing on the origins of this. Religion tells us that they came from God, so we're put at ease).Also, ABADSHOT, that post is kind of...flame-y. Not sure if that's appropriate.
Edited by discostu54, 20 October 2005 - 06:31 AM.
#2715
Guest_Erachima
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Posted 20 October 2005 - 10:52 AM
Perfection is a single state, an ultimate, ideal state from which nothing can possibly get better. It cannot contain any flaws whatsoever, and no matter how you slice it, evil is a flawed idea. So evil has no place in perfection.i think there is a god but i dont think he is pure good or pure evil... if he really is a GOD then he must possess both those traits.... i mean he cant be all good or just all bad... After all, evil is half of a perfect sphere...
#2716
Guest_nehe32
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Posted 20 October 2005 - 10:55 AM
Of course he's real just like imaginary friends!!!!
#2717
Guest_AJChau
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Posted 20 October 2005 - 10:56 AM
I beleive in god! i go to church every sunday and youth groups on friday! they're heaps of fun. it's a bit strange that there are so many religions but we all beleive in the same god. example- Catholic, Anglo-saxon and those types of religions and islamic, jewish etc.Have you guys ever wondered what would happen to u when u die? go to heaven, go to hell or just die. Think about it...
#2718
Guest_Kem the Logician
Guest_Kem the Logician
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Posted 21 October 2005 - 05:30 AM
your all going to burn in hell because you dont beleive in god and he will send you to hell where you will burn in hell and be raped by demons
... You two = N00bs... What you have just said is a good example of what most people think of when they hear the word "Christian." I'm a Christian and everything, but don't be so suprised if you get warned a few times for what you said.you dont believe in him well your screwed bye bye
Good and evil are traits of human nature and God's not a human. He is absolute, He is just, but most of all He's freaking neutral.i think there is a god but i dont think he is pure good or pure evil... if he really is a GOD then he must possess both those traits.... i mean he cant be all good or just all bad... After all, evil is half of a perfect sphere..
#2719
Guest_alden666
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Posted 21 October 2005 - 10:25 AM
I think there is a god but i dont think he cares about beings like us.. i mean i think He/She hav mor important things to do than helping silly humans like yourself.... any way, thats just an opinion. Where the hell did you get the idea that evil is a flawed idea. Assuming it is, then so does the idea of good.Yes, good and evil are traits of a human being but somewhere along the line it had to come from god after all he is the source of all things. Im beginning to consider that god and the devil may be a the same but different entities. And when i said that evil is part of a perfect sphere, i idnt mean it literally. I just cant explain it in the correct terms.
Edited by alden666, 21 October 2005 - 10:26 AM.
#2720
Guest_Missing
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Posted 22 October 2005 - 05:13 AM
silly humans? are you talking about his best creation? If he had some things more imnportant to do, then why did he appeared as a human to save us....I mean, God, Jesus, gave his life for us...silly humans...If he died for saving us...aren't we a little important for him...I think yesI think there is a god but i dont think he cares about beings like us.. i mean i think He/She hav mor important things to do than helping silly humans like yourself.... any way, thats just an opinion. Where the hell did you get the idea that evil is a flawed idea. Assuming it is, then so does the idea of good.Yes, good and evil are traits of a human being but somewhere along the line it had to come from god after all he is the source of all things. Im beginning to consider that god and the devil may be a the same but different entities. And when i said that evil is part of a perfect sphere, i idnt mean it literally. I just cant explain it in the correct terms.
#2721
Zephydel
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Posted 22 October 2005 - 06:00 AM
I agree. God exists and God loves us. If he didn't then we wouldn't be sitting here right now. I can make my own religion. Just give me a bible, I will then edit it to my liking and then start world war 3!
#2722
Guest_Kipu2021
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Posted 22 October 2005 - 11:26 PM
If you all think that non believers in a higher being will be condemned to an area of "Hell," That makes little to no sense! I mean really now... I thought you all said you had a loving god. No riteous deity would ever do that. Think about it, The Bible (in perspective) is just a good fiction book. Nobody can prove god, and nobody can disprove god. Science fills in the blanks that the Bible creates and the Bible fills in for all the gaps that Science has! Can't we all just get along?? 
#2723
Guest_Cest le Rincewind
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Posted 23 October 2005 - 02:53 AM
Okay, screw you, they haven't proven it. You shouldn't believe everything you see on TV.Yes they have proven that it was right/true. It was something the found that was the last piece of the puzzle and they have proven it right... i saw a science program about it and they said it and showed it.
#2724
Guest_Kem the Logician
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Posted 23 October 2005 - 05:23 AM
So, when one within the community has become a danger to himself and may endanger the rest of the community, he should be allowed to stay within the community despite the fact that he will bring about more and more problems? When one person falls short, remove him until he is fit to re-enter the community. This is what just retribution does, but more than often, those that have been re-educated will revert to their old selves and re-establish themselves as a danger to the community. I see Hell as a prison and I see those that refute their ways within Hell as prisoners who will be released back into the community sooner or later. But once they are released into the gates of heaven, sin takes its leave as religion does. Meaning that those that have refuted sin are no longer capable of crime. Would anyone care to tell me where God or Jesus himself says that He eternally comdemns souls to Hell?If you all think that non believers in a higher being will be condemned to an area of "Hell," That makes little to no sense! I mean really now... I thought you all said you had a loving god. No riteous deity would ever do that. Think about it, The Bible (in perspective) is just a good fiction book. Nobody can prove god, and nobody can disprove god. Science fills in the blanks that the Bible creates and the Bible fills in for all the gaps that Science has! Can't we all just get along??
Edited by kemutsemu, 23 October 2005 - 05:28 AM.
#2725
Guest_Missing
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Posted 23 October 2005 - 05:49 AM
kemutsemu's right, but also you have a time to apologize..It's not that if did a sin you're going to the hell cause if like that it is we're all going there...luckily not...Please, all the people that say you're screwed cause you don't believe or because you do, you're going to the hell, etc....just stop sayig that cause that's not true...
