6399 replies to this topic

[-Wade-]

ohh i got to ask you something then! how come god always sends a mesenger, also do you pray? if god has a divine plan and you pray and what you want isnt in the divine plan wouldnt that kinda **** the plan up?and if god knows how would that be a huge workload? i dont think he would wish that apon him selfand why would a god that loves us let us have war? ;)ps late reply was taking out trash

Huh Why me is it because of my good charms, my sex appeal or do you just want to go out with me, either way back on topic. Why do god send a messenger? well i answer this before many times, and tell you the truth it just because for our own safty, I mean Moses ask to see god and god said he'll die if he do so he send messengers or someother means to contact us Here a scripture to futher my point Impossible to see god.........Ex33:20, Joh 1:18, 1Joh 4:12 these are the popular stripure to state that god can't be seen by human eyes and live look them up yourself if you have the time but if not I'll give one

Ex33:17-20 17 And Jehovah went on to say to Moses: “This thing, too, of which you have spoken, I shall do, because you have found favor in my eyes and I know you by name.” 18 At this he said: “Cause me to see, please, your glory.” 19 But he said: “I myself shall cause all my goodness to pass before your face, and I will declare the name of Jehovah before you; and I will favor the one whom I may favor, and I will show mercy to the one to whom I may show mercy.” 20 And he added: “You are not able to see my face, because no man may see me and yet live.”

Um do I pray. well Yes Simply thank god for another day of living and ask to give me strenght to contiue fighting satan attacks (attacks that can draw me away from god) stuff like that... About the divine plan well my belief is that when the end comes (armagedon) that I'll be resurected to a paradisde earth (is what I believe rather then the popular belief in heaven) and all those who never got a chance to learn about god will do so then and gain everlasting life. As for the work load ummm you lost me according to my belief god remove his hands in human lives till end comes so till then Humans will have to live life on their own. also take gods point of view with the early Isrealites He perform many miricales and they still disobey so in eccents what the point of making miricles if the people you serve don't ptt faith in them or you. so logicaly god would stop performing miricles, and also keep in mind the issue in the garden of eden where satan challage gods authority to rule saying that humans don't need his guidence and of course I don't have time to show you biblically because I still don't have bible with me ( My bible have note and stuff that leaded to scripures that answers question like this, and trust me it took me years to get it right after many years of studing the bible, but I'll will try to edit this post with it before I leave). And also Remember that God created humans as free moral agents or free thinking creatures try reading Deuteronomy 30:19; 2 Corinthians 3:17,1 Peter 2:16 on your spare time (if you dpn't have bible please mention that in you next post and I'll be happy post them) And as for wars well like I explain above, plus sh*t happens I mean Ecclesiastes 9:11 says

I returned to see under the sun that the swift do not have the race, nor the mighty ones the battle, nor do the wise also have the food, nor do the understanding ones also have the riches, nor do even those having knowledge have the favor; because time and unforeseen occurrence befall them all

And another point about war is that the bible mention that their will be wars and all this will be the pang of the time of the end which was said in matt 24:6-8 were it reads

6 YOU are going to hear of wars and reports of wars; see that YOU are not terrified. For these things must take place, but the end is not yet. 7 “For nation will rise against nation and kingdom against kingdom, and there will be food shortages and earthquakes in one place after another. 8 All these things are a beginning of pangs of distress.

I hope you see when I say people need to read the bible more before the go preachin it I mean (and no offense) little children in my religion know scripture to this answer

Edited by The Foo Foo bunny Rriders, 28 March 2006 - 02:32 AM.

[-Wade-]

But keep in mind that the writes and readers perhaps they didn't have a word for sphere and many time circle and sphere are use as if they are the same. (I mean I still hear people say the earth is round or it is a circle only people who wanted to sound smart say circular or it a sphere to be more politically correct (boy I hope I use that in the correct way ...politically correct I mean)) ans can be use either way so on this scripture it would be the on the person who reads it but one thing still stands out the bible never said the earth is flat and you'll fall out if you go to the border and also the need to travel by ocean wasn't need or avalible at the time the bible was written.... as for the word tent that should be an illustration for people to understand what the bible writer was writing when he was talking about the earth (it would be unlikely that in bible time people use tents) But it for individuals like your self to take it literally or as a illustration to an earlier point. and I believe the idea of the tent was to illustrate how well wide the heaven is spread among the earth, becaues a tent is suppost to cover alot of ground and need to spread in a great distance like the heavens on he earth. But personally I think a tent was use because it was easier to comprehend for people of that time.... ( I mean I still know parent who explain to their children that the strork deliver babies and we all know better)

Edited by The Foo Foo bunny Rriders, 28 March 2006 - 02:58 AM.

[-Wade-]

Ahhh You brought up a good point indeed the bible do say that the earth have four points or four corners. But don't forget it could be just an expression because people still use term like that today, plus these corner could have discribe the world in cordination Like East West North And South not a literal square on an emety set of space. And also take note that many people still say phrase such as "I'll travel the four corners of the earth" and so onBut the scriputers you used hmmmm I'm curiouse where did you get them and how did you find them if you personally don't believe in the bible could it possiblely be that .... Nah I digress but those scripture i can't just leave them unanswer. So let go... Sense I talk about the four corners the earth (by the way my version says the four extremities of the earth. In Isaiah so I see where going to have some hard points that will be miss) So each corner would or could describe each direction that a obect or thing is going so when the bible say four corners could be understand that it going from east to west and south to north each representing a corner and as seeing the ends of the earthwell I'm sure you have gone on top a roller coaster (if not you should they kick a#@)or a tall building ( do go if you're scare of high places) and see the horizon the writters could have simply be talking about the it because no one can see the end of the horizan so when they say to the end of the earth they could possibly talking about going so far away that it seem that you'll reach the end of the earth her a picture to illustrate keep in mind the writer would want to give his readers a general idea of how far one thing or place may go to as for th pillars hmmm it could possible be refering to open caves or holes in the ground that have actual pillers in side of them hmmm man these are good questions plus I see you'd use a popular bible to boot too good job I'm impress _ but seriously were did you get those scriputres it kinda brothers me that you of all people have a bible or would use a bible to prove a point. But anyway I enjoy haveing this coversation Take care and remember, these point of view is my own you'll still have some valid ideas about the bible and god keep speaking them out, and if any one gives a crappy reason why you're wrong pawn them as you seem to do (trust me most of you people really need to back up your claim, really it embaressing for a profess christain saying some thing with out some actual evidents that can help prove or disprove a point) trust me i been atch this topic flow time to time so don't be suprise if I attack someone who believe in god (because half of you are just say thing from the top of your head with no idea of what the person will say or thinks give proof of you claim and you settle arguement much faster instead of having just each other try to pawn each other) But any way Neotiger x take care I really did enjoy our little chat here take care of yourself. but before I leave here a thought- Jesus and Job were a good men Why were their experience with hell so compelling.My idea is this Why did Job ask to go to Hell when he know he not a bad man and Why do the bible say jesus went to hell for three days .note I personally have my own answer I just want to see what people will say about these two and how will they prove it throught the scriptures (if they can) Note if you disregard the these question or don't provide proof thought the bible (which ever version) You'll just give neotiger X one more fuel to his fire and prove te lack of knowledge you have in the bible.... So Have fun .... ;)Gundamds Sources-

Unending Torment or Common Grave?Since the dead have no conscious existence, hell cannot be a fiery place of torment where the wicked suffer after death. What, then, is hell? Examining what happened to Jesus after he died helps to answer that question. The Bible writer Luke recounts: "Neither was [Jesus] forsaken in Hades [hell, King James Version] nor did his flesh see corruption."* (Acts 2:31) Where was the hell to which even Jesus went? The apostle Paul wrote: "I handed on to you . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures; and that he was buried, yes, that he has been raised up the third day according to the Scriptures." (1 Corinthians 15:3, 4) So Jesus was in hell, the grave, but he was not abandoned there, for he was raised up, or resurrected. Job prayed for protection in hell Consider also the case of the righteous man Job, who suffered much. Wishing to escape his plight, he pleaded: "Who will grant me this, that thou mayest protect me in hell [Sheol], and hide me till thy wrath pass?"# (Job 14:13, Douay Version) How unreasonable to think that Job desired to go to a fiery-hot place for protection! To Job, "hell" was simply the grave, where his suffering would end. The Bible hell, then, is the common grave of mankind where good people as well as bad ones go

Anyway Neo see you on the flip side (heck we may run to each other since we both live in Miami) and take care of yourself and Lokii13 (oh I didn't forget you're post earlier about the big bang theory- it still a theory still yet to be proven when is proven you'll soon ask how and why it was created and once that found you ask some more compelling question, some people like that but the whole idea that god created it seems to sum up everything once you think about it. But that just me you're your own man/woman don't let any one dictate your your judgement (if you do you'll be part of life problem (both religiously and non-religously))

Edited by The Foo Foo bunny Rriders, 28 March 2006 - 03:59 AM.

[-Wade-]

[quote name='dadroz' post='1189450' date='Mar 28 2006, 12:13 PM']I used to be a Jehovah's Witness like you. I admire your arguments and your faith and your willingness to think freely and discuss. I know a lot of Jehovah's Witnesses feel like they shouldn't think too much, because the organization tells you how to understand the Bible in Watchtowers and other publications, but continue to seek a deeper relationship with Jehovah God through Jesus Christ by the power of His Holy Spirit. I encourage you to keep on reading the Bible, preferrably the King James Version, New KJV, or New American Standard (best literal translation based on most recent understand of the original Hebrew and Greek). God will lead to closer to Him. Just one long question, do you believe that: all humans are imperfect, that we cannot become righteous other than through repentance and belief in the atonement of Jesus Christ, that the Holy Spirit of God comes to reside with us and help us live according to God's grace, and that improvement in our good works is always the RESULT of true faith? If you believe we are saved by grace through faith in Jesus Christ (Romans 10:9, confess with your mouth and believe in your heart that Jesus Christ is Lord and that God raised Him from the dead), you will be saved and you are my brother (or sister) in Christ.I don't know why my quotes' HTML hasn't worked...[/quote] You know you're the first person to figure out I'm a witness I was wondering when it will happen :whistle2: , well I personally believe in the scriputures and also know you need to have faith in god But James 2:14-17 which says [quote]14 Of what benefit is it, my brothers, if a certain one says he has faith but he does not have works? That faith cannot save him, can it? 15 If a brother or a sister is in a naked state and lacking the food sufficient for the day, 16 yet a certain one of YOU says to them: “Go in peace, keep warm and well fed,” but YOU do not give them the necessities for [their] body, of what benefit is it? 17 Thus, too, faith, if it does not have works, is dead in itself. [\quote] so even thought I believe you need to have faith in god but to also have work at it too, to illustrate -A sport player may be the best sport player in the world but with excersising or working out or procticing at his skill it will become weak, lose his great skills or worse his skills will become dead, (like Micheal Jordan (I'm not say he's the worst player but once quit the NBA and came back he was never the same)) Like our faith if you just profess in knowing christ and never work at it you'll be like some (or most) people in the world who say the know god yet live a life different from the bible. Because it easy for one person to say he has faith in god but to show it outwardly day after day will be a real test of faith. Another example the story of Job- He had faith and he show it by his action, also apostal paul- who also demenstrated his faith by preach the good news far and wide. The their Dainel who openly oppose the Kings orders by pray to god alone and not to the king himself (and later cast in the lion pit and came back out unharm)- So like to day I believe a person can't simply say I believe in god but must show it throught their life actions.As for the KJV well I have a copy and use it time to time (Most Witness are encorage to refer to it once and awhile in case someone want to study out of the KJV) and plus the book Reasoning from the Scriptures quote form the KJV most the time.heck I known some that carry it in their purse or bag while preaching. And as for your question about imperfection well yeah we're all imperfect (we're all decendent of adam and eve)and can be only save in the ransom sacrifice of Jesus Christ. (must faith toward god son that he atone the sin of adam).PS I'm Guy and second what faith are you currently in, and third ummm I have no third Point LOL Oh wait Now I remember what do you mean not allow to think freely, if you mean by not accepting other people teachings or have members not think out side the bounders of the watchtower then I see your point( al explain this in a moment) but if you talk about what a person can do in their own life Like movies( watching violent movies, playing different sort of games, listening to music) A good example is that some witness don't listen to any rap music while other feel comfortable to listen to it as long it dosen't encourage any sexual activity, drug use, dehumanizing women, killing, etc... Now about what I said earlier about not going out the boundiers of the watchtower there is a reason. During the year of 1975 there was a talk given out that talk about that the bible existed over 2000 years (or something like that, since I wasn't born in this time period I can't really say) that was given through the country, but for some odd reason som witness were proclaiming that at the end of 1975 the end will come. It wasn't till near the end of the year that the watchtower was aware of that . So they had to make public anoncement that the end will not come in 1975 at all and this was a big miss understanding. Before this many people became witness just for the sole purpose to be save once this statement wwas made people who joined for being saved left and ever since resented the witness, that why we don't want people go furthur then the watchtower or the printed material if so this incident will happen again. But if you ever had a question you'd like to address to the worldheadquarters all you need to do is write a letter and they'll respond to you as soon as possible and if it is a good enough questions or a good point it will be noted in section "question From readers" in the Awake Magazine. truth is their have been times we been mistaken and were not afriad to correct those mistake (if it according to the bible) and we never hide them.And my forth point will be that the html code can't exceed a certain amount of quotes so once the point is reach it'll just won't do itFifth point - I'm Hot (physcally, not post wise) and none of you can say anything otherwise because you know it true

Edited by The Foo Foo bunny Rriders, 28 March 2006 - 10:41 PM.

[amedeus]

Alot of things in the bible get lost in translation. In hebrew there was a word for circle but not for sphere so it could have been translated either way. Alot of things get lost in translation. Because the orginally in hebrew then switched to greek then switched to latin then switched to english, there were things that were interpereted differently. Such as Adam meaning Man. The bible isn't a litteral book. Jesus came to show us that. Jesus preached new ways and how not to take the old testament literally. Thats why Jesus came to life.

The word "virgin" originally meant "someone who hasn't given birth, yet". Meaning Jesus wasn't actually the son of God, as we say. Man, that God. He works in mysterious ways. A woman having a baby, when she'd never had one before? Whoo.

[izlude77]

I think is rather useless to disscuss something about this, i mean this isnt the first time someone discussed about the existance of God or not, there have been a lot of time and rather we can come to a conclusion, even if you knew or not that a GOD really exists then whats the difference?

[-Wade-]

Off topic- Aquadragon is another member on this forum, he use to frequently comment on different post with smart replies but at the same time cures (or pawn, and insult) others who post stupid, unfounded, and redundent post. The guy is really smart (from what I seen) but he haven't been on the forum for sometime now (he's not banned that for sure). I guess some one want to say you're as smart as him only just nicer then he wasOn topic- "religion Is corruption" is a genral statement when history proves that at time religion is what kept the world together at one point or another . Ex the midivel ages Religion was the mine glue that kept people together from harsh laws, unfair kings, and society. Plus if religion is corruption what will make society because many of society belief system those stem from some religious background (nice example would be US ). so if religion is corrupted then wouldn't it make some part of society some what corrupted. ( Plus I believe everything in this world has some form of corruption. Ex bussiness, politicans, countries, games (cheats), organization, schools, etc) so it wouldn't be fair to say religion is the only thing corrupted in this world withyout considering every thing else.