Jesus could make two universes and put himself in each of them simultaneously. In one universe, he would make himself able to eat the burrito, and in the other he would make himself unable to eat it. That way, he both fits the condition posed by the question, and the condition that he can do anything, including eating the burrito.BTW, I'm a christian."could Jesus microwave a burrito so hot that he himself could not eat it?" - Homer Simpson
God real or not?
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Guest_stubblehamster
, Feb 15 2005 12:22 AM
6399 replies to this topic
#5351
Guest_icomeanon4
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Posted 24 December 2007 - 08:45 PM
#5352
Guest_Darkgust
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Posted 24 December 2007 - 09:37 PM
If he could make you lot perfect, than what's the bloody point of making you lot at all?There're dolls for that purpose, y'know.This isn't an argument for or against evolution; there's already a topic for that. If God created us, he sure is an underachiever. The human body isn't that great, you know. In fact, it's rather weak and susceptible to a myriad of diseases and whatnot. Not a very good design, if you ask me.
#5353
Guest_Balore
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Posted 25 December 2007 - 02:46 AM
Good question, but why would he make us so weak and fragile? To be able to experience horrible emotions as well as good ones? That's pretty sick, if you ask me. Besides, if we had a perfect body, we could still experience negative emotions, so it really doesn't make sense to me. Does he enjoy watching us suffer? Why couldn't he just create people he knows will live lives worthy of entering Heaven, and just send them there directly? I guess he enjoys complicating things, too.If he could make you lot perfect, than what's the bloody point of making you lot at all?There're dolls for that purpose, y'know.
#5354
Guest_tee2330
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Posted 25 December 2007 - 03:29 AM
NOT REAL my argument god is known as an all powerful all good peson or thing there is still evil in the world if he can't stop it he is not all powerful if he doesn't want to stop it hes not all good am i right 2nd argument all the things placese animals in the universe follow certaiy rules and there is not ned for a god and if he created the universe then who created him and who created who created hiom?
#5355
Guest_Rellik_122
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Posted 25 December 2007 - 08:34 AM
I can understand where alot of atheists are coming from with "god not being real"( he is however). It's true he does allow us to experience bad things but he does not enjoy this. It says in the bible that he allows us to make our own choices, our own mistakes. I read somewhere at the beginning of this topic that where was he when _________? where was he when __________? Where was he for me when _______________? He allows those things to happen because he wants us to learn ourselves and ultimately choose for ourselves whether we think he is real or not. If atheists are correct and there is no god, than explain to me when the leaves turn color and fall off a tree. Its a beautiful scene that I believe aboslutely positively could not happen on its own without the help of God. Think of how completely perfect we were created that if even the tiniest part of our body was off we would not exist. Think of the fact that we can not have come from some stupid rock unless that rock that exploded into making us was created by God himself. Anyone who reads this please understand I am not trying to push christianity onto you like most people believe we christians do. I know how tough it can be to think theres a supreme being out there that is watching us and making us. Have you ever heard the term "What doesn't crush us makes us stronger?" I believe this is the same for people who experience terrible things like losing a family member or a loved one. But God does these things because it is their time to go to Heaven and you should not be angry about the fact they will be in a better place. I myself lost a brother when I was 9 and was terrified of the world and stayed in my room for days before finally accepting that God took him for a reason and that I should not be angry that I will see my brother at some point in the future in a much better place. If you wish to believe a rock or a one cell organism or some stupid animal is what you evolved from that is your own opinion but I beg you at least study Christianity and at least understand it before thinking its fake. It's like trying something you don't like when your young. Trust me trying it can definetely change your perspective on things and with a little luck you may find you like it. Thank you for reading.
#5356
Guest_dadads
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Posted 25 December 2007 - 10:46 AM
Saying that "God has His reasons" or "God works in a mysterious way that even I can't explain to you" defeats the logic/debate process as it simply becomes the last resort (lazy) answer to questions that people simply are unable to answer.From that, I don't see any reason why we should accept that explanation.
The color-change mechanism can be explained through Biology.Anyways...In case if you're saying that God implemented that mechanism...Imagine if leaves do not change color as it falls off trees, you would've probably said "If atheists are correct and ... the leaves don't turn color and fall off a tree." as your argument.We can see here that the argument's structure is "<insert fact here>, God must've made it that way" as opposed to "<insert something that has no alternative explanation other than God>, then it must be God"; it simply fails.I'm very interested in this classic debate, and I have yet to see a Christian that could convince me.If atheists are correct and there is no god, than explain to me when the leaves turn color and fall off a tree.
#5357
Guest_Darkgust
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Posted 25 December 2007 - 06:29 PM
Nobody likes suffering, but drat if anything else teaches better. Give me one instance when humanity learnt from happiness and I'll give you one instance when you're lying. >.<Besides, if he can create people that are instantly worthy of entering heaven, then there will be no drat point in the first place. Like I said, there're dolls for that.I'll go one furthur and say that he didn't create people, but rather the worlds that they live in; and from there, time took over. That explains a lot, no?Good question, but why would he make us so weak and fragile? To be able to experience horrible emotions as well as good ones? That's pretty sick, if you ask me. Besides, if we had a perfect body, we could still experience negative emotions, so it really doesn't make sense to me. Does he enjoy watching us suffer? Why couldn't he just create people he knows will live lives worthy of entering Heaven, and just send them there directly? I guess he enjoys complicating things, too.
Edited by Darkgust, 25 December 2007 - 06:31 PM.
#5358
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Posted 25 December 2007 - 06:43 PM
People have used the idea of God to explain things that they previously were not able to. Bad weather? Greeks thought it was the wrath of God, and people had no reason to doubt it, until new information proved that the weather was completely based on natural circumstances. Now, if someone thinks that bad weather is supernatural, they are ridiculed. All of the beliefs are based on the opinions of the times. Think of something simple, like the healing of a wound. Some people might have thought that the will of God allows the past to be healed, when in reality, DNA is duplicated as mitotic division replaces the lost cells.
Someone, make something better.
#5359
Guest_bushells
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Posted 25 December 2007 - 09:28 PM
i personally believe there is no god but i am not saying that there isnt a god
#5360
Guest_Rellik_122
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Posted 26 December 2007 - 08:14 AM
The first thing you must do to even think of believing in God is have faith. If you don't have that than it is much harder. You shouldn't have to see something to believe it. If your thinking is correct and the big bang created us I would like to meet the person you talked to that said they saw it happen themselves. If you do not believe in God because you don't see him than you can't really believe in any thing else other than something like a tree in your backyard or your computer. The fact is if you don't want to take that leap of faith than you will never believe. And if you believe in science than I pity you because science was created by us in a way just as atheists "say" the idea of God was created by us. If you still think that oh well He wasn't here for me than and there, well guess what? You may not think He is there but trust me He is. A man was just before he died looking at his life as a walk on the beach with 2 sets of footprints in the sand, the man and Jesus's. At certain hard points in his life he looked and said "Hey, right here there's only 1 set in the sand. God abandoned me when I needed him most!" But than the man realized in the hard points in his life he was being carried across the sand by Jesus. It just shows you that if you doubt God exists because your life was so tough go to a homeless shelter and ask them about their lives and they will tell you just how hard it can be. In certain situations when things get hard you should always be able to ask for help from God. Sorry I'm getting a little off topic here but I just had to explain a little on what we call faith. If you STILL don't want to believe there is a God than I wish you good luck in your life and that someone else will have better results talking to you. And one last thing, if you think that all Christians do is preach and nag you until you become one than your wrong. We just want to help those that would rather believe there is no God. Well anyways Thanks for reading..
#5361
Guest_kamiccolo
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Posted 26 December 2007 - 12:31 PM
This can be explained, I'm too lazy to do it but try using google to find out the reason why. It has something to do with the seasons changing and the temperature, obviously if you did a google search for a website explaining this you would get a more detailed answer.If atheists are correct and there is no god, than explain to me when the leaves turn color and fall off a tree. Its a beautiful scene that I believe aboslutely positively could not happen on its own without the help of God.
Actually we are not created perfectly. There is a few different body parts that we don't need (again do a google search if you want a more detailed answer) and then of course there is a few people who are born differently (more / less than 10 fingers / toes, joined twins, etc).Think of how completely perfect we were created that if even the tiniest part of our body was off we would not exist.
What happened before possible events like the big bang is unknown, this doesn't mean a god is behind it. If whatever made the big bang (assuming that what made it was not a god) had to have a beginning , then shouldn't god also have to had a beginning? What created god? If we do no have an answer to a question then it is a lot better to simply say we do not have an answer, instead of trying to give an answer with no proof and then try to explain why this made up answer is correct.Think of the fact that we can not have come from some stupid rock unless that rock that exploded into making us was created by God himself.
Whoever made this saying was not thinking about many situations. Sure it does work for some things, you can go through tough times in your life and overcome them to be even better than before. But this does not happen in every situation. Lots of bad things can be something impossible to get over, a lot of them can weaken people and ruin lives.Have you ever heard the term "What doesn't crush us makes us stronger?" I believe this is the same for people who experience terrible things like losing a family member or a loved one.
The problem with this is that if you are looking at Christianity objectively then it is not possible to understand it. There are a lot of things in the bible that are not possible, and I don't mean things like "I can't create a planet so it must not be possible for god to either". Things like god being "all powerful" can be disproved simply by asking the question "can god create a rock so heavy that he cannot lift it", he either cannot create the rock which stops him from being all powerful or he cannot lift the rock which stops him from being all powerful. This doesn't stop god from being very powerful, but the only possible explanation for god being "all powerful" in the bible is that it was just an exaggeration of his power. Then you must also ask "what else was exaggerated?, although not everything can be disproved like that I think it makes sense to assume that if 1 thing is wrong then it is likely there is more than 1 thing wrong. I can give more examples if you want...I beg you at least study Christianity and at least understand it before thinking its fake
Science is not a thing to believe in, it is facts that have been researched and proven. You can choose to try and ignore these facts, but if you looked at the research and tests done to achieve the evidence science provides then it is impossible to simply not believe in it. God, as you said in one of the parts of your post I haven't quoted, requires faith to believe. You cannot have both faith and knowledge because if you know something then there is no longer any faith required in it.And if you believe in science than I pity you because science was created by us in a way just as atheists "say" the idea of God was created by us.
I don't think all Christians want to do this, my relatives are religious (although they are not Christian) and they don't try and get me to go to church or believe in their god. But I do find the ones that do try and do this very annoying. It's almost impossible to live on earth and not know about religion, so even non religious people have a good understanding of it, which means that when someone tries to get you to join their religion they are just telling you things you have already heard, and have already decided is not enough to make you believe.And one last thing, if you think that all Christians do is preach and nag you until you become one than your wrong. We just want to help those that would rather believe there is no God.
#5362
Guest_Rellik_122
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Posted 26 December 2007 - 05:59 PM
Again read my second post on this. If you can't believe theres really nothing I can explain to you that you will not try to disprove. God could create a rock in this universe he could not lift but than create an alternate universe were he was able to lift it. This allows him to do both things at the same time. Leaves changing color on a tree is an exact science and if even the tiniest part of the process was off it wouldn't work. If gravity was a little lighter we would fly off to space, if it was a little heavier we would be crushed. Do you think some stupid rock was able to make this all happen exactly as it has to for the human race to survive?
Edited by Rellik_122, 26 December 2007 - 06:03 PM.
#5363
Guest_kamiccolo
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Posted 27 December 2007 - 01:55 AM
Of course I would try to disprove it. If it was able with withstand this then maybe I would believe in god. But I'm not going to blindly follow a group of people without having any evidence showing me that they are right.theres really nothing I can explain to you that you will not try to disprove.
This isn't all powerful. Just because they are different universes does not mean god's power in these universes changes, if he is all powerful then his power remains perfect in both universes. In the 1st universe god is not strong enough to life the rock, and in the 2nd universe he creates a lighter rock that he is able to lift.God could create a rock in this universe he could not lift but than create an alternate universe were he was able to lift it. This allows him to do both things at the same time.
If you want to try and show proof of god I would suggest leaving nature out of it. Things like this is why people invented gods centuries ago. To explain things like the sun, the moon, waves, storms, rain, etc. Looking back on these beliefs, with the knowledge we have today I think everyone can agree these people were idiots. Since then we have found proper explanations for these things. I'm pretty sure there is also explanations for things like leaves changing color and gravity as well.Leaves changing color on a tree is an exact science and if even the tiniest part of the process was off it wouldn't work. If gravity was a little lighter we would fly off to space, if it was a little heavier we would be crushed. Do you think some stupid rock was able to make this all happen exactly as it has to for the human race to survive?
#5364
Guest_x412sph
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Posted 27 December 2007 - 09:25 AM
I am a Christian and I believe that Christians have everything we believe in summed up in the Bible. If it says that God created the heaven and the earth, then we believe that God truly exists and did indeed create the universe. I'm saying this in faith.Of course I would try to disprove it. If it was able with withstand this then maybe I would believe in god. But I'm not going to blindly follow a group of people without having any evidence showing me that they are right.
You can't leave nature out of it because nature is the proof that God does exist that's because He's the One that made it and His fingerprint is in everything we see in the world. Yes, there are explanations for every thing that happens no matter how tiny it is or insignificant it is. It was all made by God and He designed everything in His infinite wisdom to fit the daily routines our lives. Also not everything can be explained by the finite minds of us humans.If you want to try and show proof of god I would suggest leaving nature out of it. Things like this is why people invented gods centuries ago. To explain things like the sun, the moon, waves, storms, rain, etc. Looking back on these beliefs, with the knowledge we have today I think everyone can agree these people were idiots. Since then we have found proper explanations for these things. I'm pretty sure there is also explanations for things like leaves changing color and gravity as well.
#5365
Guest_kamiccolo
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Posted 27 December 2007 - 11:49 AM
It is impossible to disprove god, this is because to prove or disprove something you have to study and research it until you find evidence supporting the proof or disproof. If god does not exist then we have no way of studying or researching him, meaning there is no way we can disprove him. Things in nature, however can be studied and researched. We can find evidence which gives us lots of information about plants, animals, planets, etc. If this evidence tells us information that contradicts religions answers, then it can disprove religion. For example evolution disproves creationism.You can't leave nature out of it because nature is the proof that God does exist that's because He's the One that made it and His fingerprint is in everything we see in the world. Yes, there are explanations for every thing that happens no matter how tiny it is or insignificant it is. It was all made by God and He designed everything in His infinite wisdom to fit the daily routines our lives. Also not everything can be explained by the finite minds of us humans.
#5366
Guest_Loxagn the Toxic Nightmare
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Posted 27 December 2007 - 10:06 PM
ook, you can argue this until the end of eternity, but Belief will forever supercede fact. The sky may be blue, but if someone honestly believes that it is green and has faith in that, there is no way to force him to change his mind.You cant prove or disprove that God exists any more than you can prove or disprove that you yourself exist.
#5367
Guest_Balore
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Posted 27 December 2007 - 11:31 PM
No, I agree completely.Nobody likes suffering, but drat if anything else teaches better. Give me one instance when humanity learnt from happiness and I'll give you one instance when you're lying.
That's what I mean; it's pointless to have both Heaven and Earth when he already knows the outcome of their actions.Besides, if he can create people that are instantly worthy of entering heaven, then there will be no drat point in the first place. Like I said, there're dolls for that.
It explains how uninterested he is in helping us. It's as if we're some little ant farm he watches over just for something to do.I'll go one furthur and say that he didn't create people, but rather the worlds that they live in; and from there, time took over. That explains a lot, no?
#5368
Guest_Raphiela
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Posted 28 December 2007 - 06:21 AM
As a Buddhist, I don't believe in a God. I don't because he would just be someone to blame for the injustice and also the good things in this world. It takes away from the value of the human mind, and underestimates the power it has.
#5369
Guest_Darkgust
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Posted 30 December 2007 - 04:04 PM
Hahaha, if you think that all things are predefined then you may as well slit your own throat right now 'cause it'll be pointleess to hang around here.That's what I mean; it's pointless to have both Heaven and Earth when he already knows the outcome of their actions.
Last time humanity got help, they instantanously became lazy retards (then again, they probably still are). ANd besides, how many gods do you think there are?It explains how uninterested he is in helping us. It's as if we're some little ant farm he watches over just for something to do.
Wha...?In the Debates forums?WHAT IS THIS MADNESSNo, I agree with you completely.
#5370
Guest_Balore
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Posted 30 December 2007 - 06:40 PM
Uh, what? My point was that this God fellow is supposed to be all-knowing, therefore he would already know if they were going to Heaven or Hell, so why would he even bother?Hahaha, if you think that all things are predefined then you may as well slit your own throat right now 'cause it'll be pointleess to hang around here.
So you're saying that God won't help us out, even a little, for fear that some of us might become a little lazy? That's quite ridiculous, in my opinion, and I don't think there are any gods, by the way.Last time humanity got help, they instantanously became lazy retards (then again, they probably still are). ANd besides, how many gods do you think there are?
Yep, you won't see that happen too often. You're one of the lucky ones, I guess.Wha...?In the Debates forums?WHAT IS THIS MADNESS
Edited by Balore, 31 December 2007 - 10:50 AM.
#5371
Guest_Explosion Pills
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Posted 31 December 2007 - 09:50 AM
I think God exists, and I think a lot of people define him diferently than I do in that God is not something that can be defined or identified in any way. I don't think of him as an absolute or a spirit or anyting like that. It's hard to explain.
#5372
Guest_connoll123
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Posted 31 December 2007 - 01:36 PM
why do we have an opendix if god is real. he apprently created us with this little organ in our body that we dont need and blows up when it feels like it
#5373
Guest_contentedwithlife
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Posted 31 December 2007 - 03:36 PM
For His ways are higher than our ways, and His thoughts higher than our thoughts.Who are we that we, the creation, might compare our wisdom to the creator?I say there is a God, because I have experienced Him.Countless testimonies that testify of His goodness. Not by my might, not by my power, but by His spirit that works in me, to will and to act according to His good purpose.One who does not receive is one who judges. Just stop judging, and test my words! Ask and it shall be given, seek and you shall find, knock and the door shall be open unto you.This only works for those who sincerely want to find out if there is a God.Get a bible and read it. Start anywhere, read as little as you want, but make sure you have a seeking heart. A heart wanting to know the truth.PM me if you have no results and want to insult me, you have my permission.-A witness of the light
#5374
Malice Ructor
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Posted 31 December 2007 - 05:35 PM
I don't think there is a god. If there is, I personally believe God to be malevolent.Most people think that you need a god to explain the existence of the universe. They point to the complexity and order of the universe as proof that it was designed by a conscious entity, but stop one step short of one glaring error in logic.Such a entity would have to be pretty complex himself, which begs the question: What created God?It's a giant leap from "We can't explain every part of it yet." to "God did it."
#5375
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Posted 01 January 2008 - 12:02 AM
People like you think God is malevolent just because there is suffering in the world at all. Why do you think you can understand God? Also, one problem people have is that they DO look to God as an explanation for the existence of the universe, but you should probably look at it more like the creation of the universe IS God. God did it is not an excuse either, and we're not any closer to explaining every part of it. You are jaded if you think so. For every question about the universe we answer, at least two more pop up-probably even hundreds more in most cases.And the main belief of God is that nothing created him. He created himself, or he always was. You should accept that there are some things that humans just can't understand. We're not gods after all. How do you expect us to be able to understand and explain anything and everything?The opendix [sic] is a vestigial organ that is believed to have been a second stomach by some, but we don't know what its purpose was yet. We also have vestigial tails. So I guess if there's something in the anatomy of an animal that it doesn't use in its current evolution that means there can't be a God because you obviously understand his plan and that he wouldn't make mistakes like that as you seem to think they are.I don't think there is a god. If there is, I personally believe God to be malevolent.Most people think that you need a god to explain the existence of the universe. They point to the complexity and order of the universe as proof that it was designed by a conscious entity, but stop one step short of one glaring error in logic.Such a entity would have to be pretty complex himself, which begs the question: What created God?It's a giant leap from "We can't explain every part of it yet." to "God did it."
