God real or not?

You seem to not know what God is at all. If there is such energy(i believe thereis. Its called the Human Nature;what makes us all common.) Its not God. God is an upper being. And ignorant party? Have you ever been christian, Jewish, Muslim? Most of us dotn pay because we HAVE to. God is God. He will do what he wants. he has everything. We give it as a symbol to show our faith in him. Your being very sterotypical of Monotheistic people. You think there just a bunch of people sitting around doing nothing waiting for Wisdom and great things to happen? NO. We may pray for 2000 dollars, But if we do not show effort at all, why should God give it to us? We prove that we really care by showing effort.

It's an impossible debate to win, on either side. Passionate faith cannot convert science, nor can cold evidence ever convince religion. There's never going to be a definitive way to end this argument, so I'd just say sod off; let the elitist bastid scientists mutter their theories all the way to their hidey-hole labs, and let the zealous religious fanatics preach Armageddon until the end of time really is upon us, and stop trying to enforce your opinion upon the other before feelings get hurt.hellogoodbye777, we respect your right to believe in whatever god you want to. Don't insult what other people choose to believe in.

the thing is... both sides arent going to stop. I mean science and religion are such polar opposites that its impossible to stop.The main we want non-christians to know is "For God loved you so much he gave his Son t die for your sins."that just about sums up the bible. there are many other teachings but the main point(i know) is he loves you.All we want is that all people here this statement. EVERYONE. Than our job is done. The rest is the choice the people make.

Nicely said hellogoodbye!The problem is indeed that the Scientific - Religious sides are polar opposites. But be aware. Inside the Religious 'camp' (if I may say so) there are multiple, maybe tens to hundreds of smaller 'camps', like Christianity (which is divided in multiple camps to), the Islam, Hinduism, Budhism etc. And also we have the so-called 'Sciencetology Church', some freaky 'melting' of Science and Religion. The problem is that neither side will ever know the thruth, except if the Scientific camp can prove (in conjunction with emissaries of both encampments and some Atheïsts) that God either exists or not. But that will probably never happen. And the Armageddon, well if it only happens here on earth, humanity is more or less screwed (sorry for that), because we're almost 'ready' to launch the first ships for interplanetary colonization.

I don't see what the big deal is between science and God (not religion, because religion is man-made rules trying to supplant God IMO). Einstein himself believed in God. I will, however, quote this, which was said by some Cuban preacher whose name I don't remember and really don't care about anyway: "God isn't a theorem to be proved, He is a Will to be obeyed."

Actually, let me destroy my last post. The bible explains many scientific things. Like the circularity of earth. It even mentions Telephones and TV'S!!!!If you dotn believe me, go to my post on that "Who the hell would belive in evolution anyway?" topic. And the answer to that question is: Those who dont know.Edit: NVM, ill put the verses here. But i explain it more on that forum.Hydrology 1.Hydrologic Cycle2.Evaporation3.Condensation Nuclei4.Condensation5.Precipitation6.Run-off7.Oceanic Reservoir8.Snow9.Hydrologic Balance10.Springs in the Sea 1.Ecclesiastes 1:7; Isaiah 55:102.Psalms 135:7; Jeremiah 10:133.Proverbs 8:264.Job 26:8; 37:11, 165.Job 36:26-286.Job 28:107.Psalms 33:78.Job 38:22; Psalms 147:169.Job 28:24-2610.Job 38:16Geology 1.Principle of Isostasy2.Shape of Earth3.Rotation of Earth 4.Gravitation 5.Rock Erosion6.Glacial Period7.Uniformitarianism8.Dinosaurs1.Isaiah 40:12; Psalm 104:5-92.Isaiah 40:22; Job 26:10; Psalm 103:123.Job 38:12,144.Job 26:7; 38:65.Job 14:18,196.Job 38:29,307.II Peter 3:48.Job 40,41Astronomy 1.Size of Universe2.Number of Stars3.Uniqueness of Each Star4.Precision of Orbits 1.Job 11:7-9; 22:12; Isaiah 55:9;Jeremiah 31:372.Genesis 22:17; Jeremiah 33:223.I Corinthians 15:414.Jeremiah 31:35,36Meteorology 1.Circulation of Atmosphere2.Protective Effect of Atmosphere3.Oceanic Origin of Rain4.Relation of Electricity to Rain5.Fluid Dynamics 1.Ecclesiastes 1:62.Isaiah 40:223.Ecclesiastes 1:74.Job 28:26; Jeremiah 10:135.Job 28:25Biology1.Blood Circulation2.Psychotherapy3.Biogenesis and Stability4.Uniqueness of Man5.Chemical Nature of Flesh6.Cave-men1.Leviticus 17:112.Proverbs 16:24; 17:223.Genesis 1:11,21,254.Genesis 1:265.Genesis 1:11,24-2:7;3:196.Job 12:23-25; 30:3-8Physics 1.Mass-Energy Equivalence2.Source of Energy for Earth3.Atomic Disintegration4.Electrical Transmission of Information5.Television6.Rapid Transportation 1.Colossians 1:17; Hebrews 1:32.Psalms 19:63.II Peter 3:104.Job 38:355.Revelation 11:9-116.Daniel 12:4*Note: The numbers correspond witht he verse that proves that in the bible. Soem of these require critical thinking and some poetic and biblical knowledge.

Edited by AMHV, 11 March 2008 - 05:27 AM.

I don't really want to directly attack god, so I'll provide a rebuttal to the last reply.When critical thinking, and (uggh) poetry are applied to any cryptic phrase, they can sound like actual foresight. It's the same reason that we think random horoscopes apply to us.

have you bothered to read any of these? escpecially the television one?There is a God. just admit it.

those verses have many different meanings, and one could interpret them the way one wants..the bible didn't explain them.. it's just how you interpreted them..if you don't know about those scientific things, would you say that those are their meanings?it's just a mind illusion.. vagueness of things is directly proportional to the number of interpretations..I don't need to believe there is a god, for what is the purpose believing in its existence?

hellogoodbye, you're just interpreting the extremely vague messages to fit what you want to be true. People have been doing it for thousands of years, and they'll probably continue forever. That's a problem with the Bible and other holy texts: they're written in such a such a way that they don't explain most things clearly, so people just assume it means what they wish it to mean.I'm afraid it doesn't sound at all convincing to even the dumbest non-believer.

NIV is not the only version that has this. infact, the bible has so many different versions. The Original hebrew and greek text had these too..Psalms 135:7; Jeremiah 10:13This does talk about the circularity of earth. Actually read the verse. I'll admit, all of them may not be perfect but the television one works. You know why? (If you know what the verse is atlking about, it makes sense) It talks about the two prophets who coem down from heaven and later die. And the ENTIRE WORLD, EVERY TRIBE AND NATION, AND PEOPLE WILL SE THEIR BODIES. First of all, How is anyone going see their bodies if it is so far away in Israel without T.V? And second, if the T.V doesnt exist, How are people going to get there in 3 and a half days without cars, aiplanes?"I'm afraid it doesn't sound at all convincing to even the dumbest non-believer." Yet the people that have context and know about the bible get this.....

It escapes me how some people can believe wholeheartedly in this great being that watches over all of us, and is supposed to love each of us, when there is no proof.

It escapes me how some people can believe wholeheartedly in this great being that watches over all of us, and is supposed to love each of us, when there is no proof.

It escapes me how some people write nonsense sentences without even reading posts before this.I belive I have given my proof in above posts.

.Psalms 135:7; Jeremiah 10:13This does talk about the circularity of earth. Actually read the verse.

Psalm 135:7 (King James Version)"He causeth the vapours to ascend from the ends of the earth; he maketh lightnings for the rain; he bringeth the wind out of his treasuries."Jeremiah 10:13 (King James Version)"When he uttereth his voice, there is a multitude of waters in the heavens, and he causeth the vapours to ascend from the ends of the earth; he maketh lightnings with rain, and bringeth forth the wind out of his treasures."Alright. I just did. I don't see one thing that points to the Earth being circular. Not one.

I'll admit, all of them may not be perfect but the television one works.

No, it doesn't. It doesn't at all. It's so vague that you could come up with anything for it. When I read it, I assumed it meant that everyone would see the bodies and whatnot through the divine power of God. There's no reason to believe it's a reference to television. Don't you think that such an important book would be a little more clearer? This is supposed to be important stuff here. There shouldn't even have to be a single interpretation.

Yet the people that have context and know about the bible get this.....

Those people aren't any more convincing either. You can always find someone that's willing to believe something, no matter what it is, and they'll definitely claim to understand it.

its my turn to apoligize i put the wrong verses for the circularity of the earth2.Isaiah 40:22; Job 26:10; Psalm 103:12The T.V one works. I have said

all of them may not be perfect but the television one works. You know why? (If you know what the verse is atlking about, it makes sense) It talks about the two prophets who coem down from heaven and later die. And the ENTIRE WORLD, EVERY TRIBE AND NATION, AND PEOPLE WILL SE THEIR BODIES. First of all, How is anyone going see their bodies if it is so far away in Israel without T.V? And second, if the T.V doesnt exist, How are people going to get there in 3 and a half days without cars, aiplanes?

(King James Version)

No need to say more. there are other more dependable versions older than this.

That last one doesn't mention anything about circularity at all, and Isaiah 40:22 talks about the circle of the Earth. This doesn't necessarily mean a spherical Earth. Just because people thought the Earth was flat, didn't mean they all thought it was square.I've already read what you had to say about the T.V. thing, and responded.Which version of the Bible do you think is the most dependable?

Obviously the original hebrew or aramaic or greek.And yes the circle of the earth. What else could it be? What about the other verse? As far as from the east to the west?

No, it doesn't. It doesn't at all. It's so vague that you could come up with anything for it. When I read it, I assumed it meant that everyone would see the bodies and whatnot through the divine power of God. There's no reason to believe it's a reference to television. Don't you think that such an important book would be a little more clearer? This is supposed to be important stuff here. There shouldn't even have to be a single interpretation.

Assume= Ass U Me.Through what kidn of power of God. People think religion is just Asking for a dollar and getting it. It is asking God for it but you ahev to give EFFORT.It applies to this revelation verse as well.

Obviously the original hebrew or aramaic or greek.

I can't see the original being DRASTICALLY different from the newer versions. I'll do my best to quote the original next time, though.

And yes the circle of the earth. What else could it be?

I've already told you. It could just as easily mean a flat Earth, just in the shape of a circle. Think pizza. It doesn't mention anything about Earth being spherical.

What about the other verse? As far as from the east to the west?

What about it? I see nothing pointing to a circular Earth in that verse.

Assume= Ass U Me.

Kay.

Through what kidn of power of God. People think religion is just Asking for a dollar and getting it. It is asking God for it but you ahev to give EFFORT.It applies to this revelation verse as well.

What kind of power? This is God we're talking about, here. He can make anything happen, so I think it's safe to assume he can make everyone see the bodies if he wanted to.

I can't see the original being DRASTICALLY different from the newer versions. I'll do my best to quote the original next time, though.

It is different but the intention is the same

What about it? I see nothing pointing to a circular Earth in that verse.

As far as east to the west. That means that the east of the world meets the west side.. in other words, a sphere.

What kind of power? This is God we're talking about, here. He can make anything happen, so I think it's safe to assume he can make everyone see the bodies if he wanted to.

I mean power as in he gave us the human brain to think. And through God creating the human brain, we created a T.V. so that the bodies can be seen. So through HIS power, we created a T.V. and again, Assume= Ass U Me.Do you believe that God exists?(this is relevant)

It is different but the intention is the same.

I don't think it would be different enough to have any new meaning.

As far as east to the west. That means that the east of the world meets the west side.. in other words, a sphere.

What? It means as far as the east to the west; nothing more. It's merely saying that he sees all. There's no reason to Ass U Me that the two points meet.

I mean power as in he gave us the human brain to think. And through God creating the human brain, we created a T.V. so that the bodies can be seen. So through HIS power, we created a T.V. and again, Assume= Ass U Me.

If you could explain to me why you keep looking down upon assumptions, that'd be great, because you're not making any sense to me on that subject. That's an interesting interpretation, but it doesn't make it right. It doesn't make mine right either, but that's my point; you can think up dozens of possibilities, not just your T.V. one.

Do you believe that God exists?(this is relevant)

I don't believe any gods exist. I suppose now you'll spout off garbage on how I just can't understand how the faithful see things more clearly or something. Oh, joy.And by the way, it's completely irrelevant. This is all interpretation.

This has nothing to do with what we WANT to believe (although many ignorant people think that we need the choice of beleving(sp?) in a book that we dont know exactly know how came to be.) but how we should believe. you have the choice to believe in this "god" figure that created everything and will take you to an eternal happiness after death with no actual proof of his existance. If anyone can PROVE there is a god, please do. and the bible isint a form a proof, it's a book made by someone, Noone really knows who because it wasn't documented by an actual person that we could have known of. without hell there cant be a heaven such as without evil there cant be good. hell is no doubt a way to scare people into thinking that they always have to do the right things in life. Untill the day comes there's proof of god then i'm staying an athiest.

This has nothing to do with what we WANT to believe (although many ignorant people think that we need the choice of beleving(sp?) in a book that we dont know exactly know how came to be.) but how we should believe. you have the choice to believe in this "god" figure that created everything and will take you to an eternal happiness after death with no actual proof of his existance. If anyone can PROVE there is a god, please do. and the bible isint a form a proof, it's a book made by someone, Noone really knows who because it wasn't documented by an actual person that we could have known of. without hell there cant be a heaven such as without evil there cant be good. hell is no doubt a way to scare people into thinking that they always have to do the right things in life. Untill the day comes there's proof of god then i'm staying an athiest.

We do have the choice to either believe him or not. As simple as that.How many people wrote the bible? There are 40 authors of the books of the Bible. we know the names of most of them but there are anonymous writers too. Some of the authors wrote one book, some wrote several. We are not "scared" to do anything. It is our choices. Choices are what make us, what makes people different(not physically.) We know just about how the bible came to be. it was written by God through the peopel he chose to use.

"you like the fact that you were spec's that evolved into bigger specs and after soo long became a human? even if God Doesnt exist (which he does), why wouldnt you want to believe that you were created by God? that you didnt just evolve from some crap floating around in space that evovled.. and the fact that it cant be duplicated again? isnt that a clue? that u arent an evolved species? anyways, thats enough for todays lesson, feel free to reply to this, and No Flamming."My God! You're absolutely right! I should totally believe that some guy who can't be seen, sits on his throne VERY far away from us, yet can still see EVERY LITTLE thing we do...Because that just absolutely makes more sense! *end of my sarcasm*Now, let me ask you this; you don't believe in the Big Bang Theory, which you claim can't be reproduced...Yet you believe in some figment of man's creation. Explanation please? >_<

i like to think that God is real becasue its jsut nice to knowthat your not alone in the world and that there is something out htere thats bigger than. Its also really depressing if you are a true athiest that bleive that nothing is special or that has a soul and when someone like you daughter asks, " daddy am i special?" you have to answer, "no honey your not, no one is speical everything in the world is the same and your as special as that cockroach in the corner right there, now go to school ahve a nice day!"

Well if God exists then Religion has to exist.Both are inextricably intertwined.& Christianity isnt a conspiricy.. loland those who believe in the big bang theory, why would you want to believe in that in the first place? you like the fact that you were spec's that evolved into bigger specs and after soo long became a human? even if God Doesnt exist (which he does), why wouldnt you want to believe that you were created by God? that you didnt just evolve from some crap floating around in space that evovled.. and the fact that it cant be duplicated again? isnt that a clue? that u arent an evolved species? anyways, thats enough for todays lesson, feel free to reply to this, and No Flamming.

no, religion was created by men, Jesus didnt came to the world to fund a new religion but to show us a way of life, the way to salvation not by man hands but by a loving God who gave us all even though we are not willing to give anything, and he gave us all even though we didnt deserve it... now u just have to accept it, after all God is a person witch is offering friendship to all of those willing to listen