Agnosticism has nothing to do belief in the existence of god.It deals with the nature of knowledge and whether the existence of god is knowable.It's possible to be both an agnostic and an atheist, or to be one and not the other.Although I would question your assetion that with issues like the existence of God there is empirical evidince. The last time I checked the academic community is still very much in debate as to the existence of God. Furthermore how does one argue in favour of a position like agnotisim? Yes this is a debate, however to slant it in such a way as to disadvantage certain view points is something I consider to be heavily discouraging. I also do not see any major problems with his represenatation of the agnostic perspective either.
God real or not?
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#6251
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Posted 22 April 2009 - 06:04 AM
#6252
reddeath26
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Posted 23 April 2009 - 11:54 PM
I find it quite difficult to see situations where a person can be both agnostic and atheist. An agnostic person believing that we can not know whether God exists or not whereas an atheist believing there is no such thing as a God. Although as my avatar suggests, I take this from a more particularist/pluralistic perspecitve. Nonetheless I am interested in seeing how you came to your conclusion.Agnosticism has nothing to do belief in the existence of god.It deals with the nature of knowledge and whether the existence of god is knowable.It's possible to be both an agnostic and an atheist, or to be one and not the other.
#6253
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Posted 24 April 2009 - 12:24 AM
There are levels of atheism, it's not a binary state of "god exists" and "god does not exist". For example, you can say that god does not exist because the nonexistence of god is unfalsifiable, while not saying that god does not exist and can not possibly exist. There's also levels of agnosticism aside from "the existence of god(s) is knowable" or "the existence of god(s) is unknowable". For example you can say that the existence of certain gods is known to be false (Iesu isn't the son of god, Mohammad isn't his prophet, etc), while also saying that there are definitions of god(s) that are unfalsifiable, and thus unknowable. Because of this, it's possible for these beliefs to intersect depending on how one defines things. For example, the existence of a god that is unfalsifiable would be both unknowable and meaningless; an unknowable god would obviously fit with agnosticism, while a meaningless god can be interpreted to be equivalent to an nonexistent god.Technically, tenants of certain religions promote agnostic theism, while they also have vocal evidentialist apologists. So if you're really looking for a contradictions, it can probably be found more easily in religion.I find it quite difficult to see situations where a person can be both agnostic and atheist. An agnostic person believing that we can not know whether God exists or not whereas an atheist believing there is no such thing as a God. Although as my avatar suggests, I take this from a more particularist/pluralistic perspecitve. Nonetheless I am interested in seeing how you came to your conclusion.
#6254
reddeath26
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Posted 24 April 2009 - 02:31 AM
Firstly I want to clarify that I make this post in a sincere manner. I am aware it may end up looking like I am taking the piss but this is not the case.
I would like to see further development of this point here. If something does not exist, how can it be possible for it to also exist at the same time? If one states that an object does not exist, surely this is also ruling out the possibility of it existing.For example, you can say that god does not exist because the nonexistence of god is unfalsifiable, while not saying that god does not exist and can not possibly exist.
I concede on this point here. As I agree there will no doubt be varying levels.There are levels of atheism, it's not a binary state of "god exists" and "god does not exist".
#6255
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Posted 24 April 2009 - 06:15 AM
Basically, that person would believe:"god exists" is falsifiable (by observing god, we can confirm that god exists)"god does not exist" is not (necessarily) falsifiable (not being able to observe god does not mean that god does not exist)However, for the sake of parsimony, god does not exist can be accepted in the case that "god exists" has not been falsified. This view would be a version of agnostic atheism. Basically, if there's no reason to expect that god exists, I'll live that way until I see evidence to the contrary, though I also accept that it whether some entity called god exists may be impossible to determine.Saying that god cannot possibly exist is stronger than that. Mostly this is due to paradoxes in attributes traditionally given to god, such as omniscience or omnipotence. This would be a non-agnostic atheistic position.It should be noted that in the first case, with the agnostic atheist, the unfalsifiable god bears pretty much no relation to deities in traditional religions. Because it's not falsifiable, its existence is basically irrelevant. The nonexistence of gods in various religions is falsifiable, by observing the contradictions between the claims of a particular religion and the real world.I would like to see further development of this point here. If something does not exist, how can it be possible for it to also exist at the same time? If one states that an object does not exist, surely this is also ruling out the possibility of it existing.
Edited by 38542788, 24 April 2009 - 03:39 PM.
#6256
Guest_Skia Frosthowl
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Posted 25 April 2009 - 04:00 AM
Pretty much stated perfectly. I myself am agnostic with a plethora of fun views. In science, if you have not seen it, theres a chance it existsif you've seen it, of course it does!Unfortunately unlike science, one cannot test for a higher being. Its left to the individual to die and find out. Though its ironic, if god does not exist, they will never know."god exists" is falsifiable (by observing god, we can confirm that god exists)"god does not exist" is not (necessarily) falsifiable (not being able to observe god does not mean that god does not exist)However, for the sake of parsimony, god does not exist can be accepted in the case that "god exists" has not been falsified. This view would be a version of agnostic atheism. Basically, if there's no reason to expect that god exists, I'll live that way until I see evidence to the contrary, though I also accept that it whether some entity called god exists may be impossible to determine.
#6257
Guest_rock oxyde
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Posted 15 May 2009 - 02:48 AM
I believe God is real. Several reasons. I'll enumerate...1. Experience. Through faith, we can experience God. Reading the bible will help us strengthen this faith. There are parts in the bible that are true in our life and in the world.2. Religion. There may be different religions but all of which has a God, or more, except the atheist. Like Buddha, Allah...there is the same God in different names in different religion. And believers of that religion all do good to please or follow their God.3. Supernatural beings... Or in other words, spirits. Some people can see or feel them but we can't give real or scientific explanation. Demons or ghosts, they are real. Where'd they come from? Maybe they may be related to afterlife. Have you read Dante Alighieri's work, the divine comedy and the inferno? If he didn't really went to hell/purgatory for real, then he must have a frighteningly creative imagination. How could he have thought of all those that he saw there? What he have wrote must have some inspiration. And that might me the real thing.4. First Cause. Aristotle's theory of first cause, that the cause of everything from the start is God. For example, the paper's cause is the tree, the tree's cause is the seed, the seed's cause the soil, the soil's cause is the earth, the earth's cause is the universe... the universe' cause... if science cannot give any explanation, that would be God.
#6258
Guest_Gchenz
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Posted 15 May 2009 - 03:53 AM
1. Experience. Through daydreams, I experience being a wizard. Through books, my experiences are being relived. The Harry Potter series is a reflection of our contemporary society.2. Fandom. There are different fan group but all of them have a central worshiped entity. Like DBSK, Konoha Ninja Academy ... It is all just the same entity in different names. What we want to be to escape the passing days of our boring lives. Mine just happens to be Harry Potter.3. Magical powers... Or in other words, magic. Some people claim that they have experienced it but we cannot prove its existence. Witches and mages, they must be real. Where did they come from? An alternate reality obviously. Rowling must be a creative genius to be able to conjure such vivid characters in our minds. They must be real.4. Gchenz's theory of everything. Everything must have happened for a reason and there is a reason for everything. If science cannot prove that magic does not exist, it must exist then. MAGIC IS REAL EVERYONE!!!!I believe God is real. Several reasons. I'll enumerate...1. Experience. Through faith, we can experience God. Reading the bible will help us strengthen this faith. There are parts in the bible that are true in our life and in the world.2. Religion. There may be different religions but all of which has a God, or more, except the atheist. Like Buddha, Allah...there is the same God in different names in different religion. And believers of that religion all do good to please or follow their God.3. Supernatural beings... Or in other words, spirits. Some people can see or feel them but we can't give real or scientific explanation. Demons or ghosts, they are real. Where'd they come from? Maybe they may be related to afterlife. Have you read Dante Alighieri's work, the divine comedy and the inferno? If he didn't really went to hell/purgatory for real, then he must have a frighteningly creative imagination. How could he have thought of all those that he saw there? What he have wrote must have some inspiration. And that might me the real thing.4. First Cause. Aristotle's theory of first cause, that the cause of everything from the start is God. For example, the paper's cause is the tree, the tree's cause is the seed, the seed's cause the soil, the soil's cause is the earth, the earth's cause is the universe... the universe' cause... if science cannot give any explanation, that would be God.
Edited by Gchenz, 15 May 2009 - 03:55 AM.
#6259
Guest_asdfth12
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Posted 16 May 2009 - 02:30 AM
As george carlin says.Religion has people beleiving that their is a invisable man up in sky who watches everything you do. And he has a list of ten things he does not want you to do. And if you do any of these ten things he send you to a pit full of fire and burning and pain were you will suffer for all of eternity till the end of time... But he loves you! End of what george carlin once siadIf there is a god when why is it that almove every ethnic group have a diffrent god with difrent ideals? Seems strange to me.Just pointing to another part of the magnificent works of george carlin.But what about the divine plan? Everything that happens is a part of the divine plan, so why pray to god asking him to change something? What good is a divine plan if a poor smuck with a two dollar prayer book can go around trying to change you plan? end of what george carlin once saidNow for my next point.From what i understand my churches look down on being gay. But doesn't the bible say you should treat others like how you want to be treated? And to tie this with the divine plan crap. If the divine plan is real then that means that god planed for the person to be gay... wait hold on for one second. God planned for the person to be gay... Then why does the church say that god doesn't like gays? Seems pretty stupid for a so called divine being to create something and hate it and still use it in his plans.And next point with no words from george carlin.If god supposedly doesn't like gays then why are the cathloic priests 'messing' around with the alterboys? Something doesn't sound right with that part to me.EditI forgot one major part. So major in fact that i am now hitting my head agenst the wall because i forgot it.Can't remember what 'commandment' it was but i think one of them said thou shalt not kill. Seems like a pile of crap to me. I mean, just look at all the wars and the people killed in the name of god. Each side beleived they had god on their side. Guess god swings both ways. interpret that as you will.
Edited by asdfth12, 16 May 2009 - 02:36 AM.
#6260
Guest_Jouten
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Posted 16 May 2009 - 02:02 PM
In the Bible you will never find a passage written that being gay is a sin. Just as you can't find where it says "God made Earth the center of the world".That's just something some people of the chruch made up.There are many things that you don't find in the Bible. For example: Where the hell is written in the bible that Jesus, God and the Holy Spirit are one and the same person?That's right some people made it up in a council. Next thing is that it was said Jesus never had brothers and sisters and maria was a virgin for the Rest of her life, but that's not true. There are 4 brothers that are named in the Bible and he has many sisters that are menitioned but are not named.Jakobus, Joses, Judas, Simon were the names of Jesu brothers.My point is that man people interpret the bible wrong. Who knows what God plans if he exists? If God created us how can something inferior like us understand what the almighty plans? Everyone prays to another God, cause no one knows what he does or what he wants. everony has another idea of God.I for example think that the term God is just a synonym for hope. It's more of a feeling than a person.Me and my very christian friend had once a long discussion about the omniscience of God. Well it started with the discussion about destiny.He asked me if I believe in destiny. I answered instantly no. "I believe everyone can decide what he wants to be and what he wants to make. Everyone has a free will" He agreed with me at that point. Then he told me that if God is omniscient he would know everything. Even what happens in the future.But seeing what happens in the future also means that he can see what I will do and that means there must be destiny and I don't have a free will.I couldn't respond
#6261
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Posted 16 May 2009 - 06:29 PM
Leviticus 18, Paul also mentioned homosexuals a couple of times.In the Bible you will never find a passage written that being gay is a sin. Just as you can't find where it says "God made Earth the center of the world".That's just something some people of the chruch made up.
Maybe you should arrange your beliefs in a manner so that you can?I couldn't respond
#6262
Guest_Jouten
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Posted 17 May 2009 - 01:29 AM
I still don't find the passage. Could you tell me? being gay was normal in the antique. Well not really being gay. But rich romans had some "Iuvenes"- young man- to play with even though they were married...To the second thing: He believes more in God than I do. He answered the question himself after I couldn't respond. Well ok this was a more complicated conversation and of course this was a trap set by him. I came up with the argument of God being omniscient with the story of Jesus refusing a Heathen. and if I now answered this question with what he was expecting I of course would have lost the argument.I can tell you how it goes on, but I want to hear your opinion first
Edited by Jouten, 17 May 2009 - 11:45 PM.
#6263
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Posted 18 May 2009 - 09:46 AM
I'd like to point out that my answers are meant to be succinct. I'm not letting my verbosity suffer for the benefit of laziness.
John 1:1 - In the Beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The Word (Logos) is Christ before he became flesh. And there are several references to the Holy Spirit.Where the hell is written in the bible that Jesus, God and the Holy Spirit are one and the same person?
What was your point here? Many of the things stated in the Bible are stated so because of the Council of Nicaea.That's right some people made it up in a council.
I'd like to see even one bit of evidence supporting this.Next thing is that it was said Jesus never had brothers and sisters and maria was a virgin for the Rest of her life, but that's not true. There are 4 brothers that are named in the Bible and he has many sisters that are menitioned but are not named.Jakobus, Joses, Judas, Simon were the names of Jesu brothers.
I have two questions for you, then. 1.) If God is all-seeing, all-knowing, and all-powerful, can He change His mind about something that hasn't happened yet? and 2.) Can God create something which He cannot destroy?Me and my very christian friend had once a long discussion about the omniscience of God. Well it started with the discussion about destiny.He asked me if I believe in destiny. I answered instantly no. "I believe everyone can decide what he wants to be and what he wants to make. Everyone has a free will" He agreed with me at that point. Then he told me that if God is omniscient he would know everything. Even what happens in the future.But seeing what happens in the future also means that he can see what I will do and that means there must be destiny and I don't have a free will.I couldn't respond
No, he didn't. He mentioned temple prostitution, as did Lev 18. (Also, Leviticus 18 is irrelevant, as Jesus threw out the Mosaic Law with his new covenant.)Leviticus 18, Paul also mentioned homosexuals a couple of times.
#6264
Guest_Jouten
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Posted 18 May 2009 - 05:33 PM
Oh there is lots of evidence of Jesus having brothers:Mt 12,46-50; Mt 13,55.56; Mk 3,31; Mk 6,3; Joh 2,12; Joh 7,3.5; Apostles 1,14; Kor 9,5; Gal 1,19;I have several more but I don't find them now...I'd like to see even one bit of evidence supporting this
That's pretty vague evidence for Jesus, God and the Holy spirit being one and the same personJohn 1:1 - In the Beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The Word (Logos) is Christ before he became flesh. And there are several references to the Holy Spirit
Actually the Bible was written before the councils. The councils just decided which evangelia are put into the Bible (for example they didn't put in the Evangelium of Thomas into the Bible. He didn't use rethorical devices and just strung together all of Jesu similes)I just don't believe what they decided in a council 1000 years ago, because if al were right what they concluded there wouldn't have followed so many councils after the first one.What was your point here? Many of the things stated in the Bible are stated so because of the Council of Nicaea
Hey if i could answer those kind of questions, wouldn't his discussion be pointless? We can only assume what God can do. I suppose he can. For example he seems not to be able to destroy angels (example: Luzifer)have two questions for you, then. 1.) If God is all-seeing, all-knowing, and all-powerful, can He change His mind about something that hasn't happened yet? and 2.) Can God create something which He cannot destroy?
#6265
reddeath26
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Posted 18 May 2009 - 10:52 PM
Firstly thanks for the explanation, it would seem I was attempting to fit square pegs into circle holes. In which case I certainly withdraw my claim to be agnostic as it is nowhere near as close to pluralism as I had once thought. I believe I am closest to pluralism, in the sense that I do not believe that it is possible to know whether a god/s exist. I view religion and the belief in god/s as somewhat of a culture into itself. Indeed in many cultures religion holds a central role. Drawing from this I find any attempt to prove or disprove it will be prone to bias as they will inevitably be ethnocentric in some way or form. Not only that but in recognition of the extreme costs of forced ethnocide and assimilation, I would question whether it is desirable to do so. Although it is important to note that when I think of religion my first thoughts go to tribal/indigenous/small scall/the fourth world or whatever the particular group want to be referred to.Basically, that person would believe:"god exists" is falsifiable (by observing god, we can confirm that god exists)"god does not exist" is not (necessarily) falsifiable (not being able to observe god does not mean that god does not exist)However, for the sake of parsimony, god does not exist can be accepted in the case that "god exists" has not been falsified. This view would be a version of agnostic atheism. Basically, if there's no reason to expect that god exists, I'll live that way until I see evidence to the contrary, though I also accept that it whether some entity called god exists may be impossible to determine.Saying that god cannot possibly exist is stronger than that. Mostly this is due to paradoxes in attributes traditionally given to god, such as omniscience or omnipotence. This would be a non-agnostic atheistic position.It should be noted that in the first case, with the agnostic atheist, the unfalsifiable god bears pretty much no relation to deities in traditional religions. Because it's not falsifiable, its existence is basically irrelevant. The nonexistence of gods in various religions is falsifiable, by observing the contradictions between the claims of a particular religion and the real world.
#6266
Guest_rock oxyde
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Posted 20 May 2009 - 08:16 AM
(my out of the debates words are inside the parentheses, I use them to segregate my arguments from my advices/evidences/etc)I was expecting this, and I'm glad it came up.Unfortunately, you forgot that true premises and true conclusions does not guarantee a valid argument. And you classified my deductions as an induction, which made you give out an inductive statement.1. The experience that I'm trying to explain is the effect of the environment towards man... That is what forges our faith. (Terribly sorry that I hadn't written it down on my first post) The experience you are pertaining to is made by man itself. In other words, it is intropersonal. The bible is a series of books compacted in one book. It was written by different people who had existed at the time Jesus was alive. So it also has a historical evidence.2. Religions have already existed even during early civilizations, like animism. Fandom only existed because our society had created celebrities to look upon. Religion has been part of how man would live. It might probably exist to prove that every man, in whatever situation would be pointed into believing in a God-like being.3. Magical powers. Your only false premise. Witches and magicians, as you say real, had existed...in Medieval ages. They are considered evil and magical because people of Medieval era thought of it. Because they talk to animals or say things about science. These 'witches and mages' were the skeptics of faith and religion. That is why they are called magicians, someone who practices the black arts. That's where they come from. (Piece of advice: You should consider going through historical facts before you give an argument, it would be very helpful so that your statements won't get any rebuttals) Rowling got the idea already from creatures created by our ancestors. Ever heard of Chimaeras? They are just creatures whose body parts were just mixed from different animals. People must have thought it would be interesting to see a human body with a cat's head (Like the Egyptians, as they worship cats for saving them from a plague of pests) Creatures and characters in Harry Potter, already had an inspiration. Otherwise, witchcraft should have no historical record.5. (Whoever said magic didn't exist? Only the people in Dark ages said it was a thing of evil, like alchemy and witchcraft. Magic had happened in our history, around the time of the Dark Ages) The part where witchcraft and magic existed in our history have happened for a reason. In my faith, I believe it's a challenge to us, whether we stick to our faith or to another cult. For history, people who doubted of God probably introduced it. Or people who just studies chemicals and makes experiments, our early scientists, were not accepted in the society for others believe that it was wrong or against God.(Sorry for the late reply... I'm really excited to read others' reply to my posts)1. Experience. Through daydreams, I experience being a wizard. Through books, my experiences are being relived. The Harry Potter series is a reflection of our contemporary society.2. Fandom. There are different fan group but all of them have a central worshiped entity. Like DBSK, Konoha Ninja Academy ... It is all just the same entity in different names. What we want to be to escape the passing days of our boring lives. Mine just happens to be Harry Potter.3. Magical powers... Or in other words, magic. Some people claim that they have experienced it but we cannot prove its existence. Witches and mages, they must be real. Where did they come from? An alternate reality obviously. Rowling must be a creative genius to be able to conjure such vivid characters in our minds. They must be real.4. Gchenz's theory of everything. Everything must have happened for a reason and there is a reason for everything. If science cannot prove that magic does not exist, it must exist then. MAGIC IS REAL EVERYONE!!!!
#6267
Guest_darkknight014
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Posted 23 May 2009 - 03:18 PM
Actually, the authors of the books of the New Testament (Jesus's time) lived decades or centuries after Jesus allegedly did. And even if they had been people who personally knew this Jesus character, it doesn't mean it was true. I can write a story about a school teacher I know in which I give him Superman's powers. It's a first hand account, and therefore it's a historical, true account, right? Wrong!(my out of the debates words are inside the parentheses, I use them to segregate my arguments from my advices/evidences/etc)I was expecting this, and I'm glad it came up.Unfortunately, you forgot that true premises and true conclusions does not guarantee a valid argument. And you classified my deductions as an induction, which made you give out an inductive statement.1. The experience that I'm trying to explain is the effect of the environment towards man... That is what forges our faith. (Terribly sorry that I hadn't written it down on my first post) The experience you are pertaining to is made by man itself. In other words, it is intropersonal. The bible is a series of books compacted in one book. It was written by different people who had existed at the time Jesus was alive. So it also has a historical evidence.
Religions existed a long, long time ago. Therefore, religions are correct? I don't get what your point here is.2. Religions have already existed even during early civilizations, like animism. Fandom only existed because our society had created celebrities to look upon. Religion has been part of how man would live. It might probably exist to prove that every man, in whatever situation would be pointed into believing in a God-like being.
Again, you have no point. You're saying nonsense that has nothing to do with the person you quoted's point.3. Magical powers. Your only false premise. Witches and magicians, as you say real, had existed...in Medieval ages. They are considered evil and magical because people of Medieval era thought of it. Because they talk to animals or say things about science. These 'witches and mages' were the skeptics of faith and religion. That is why they are called magicians, someone who practices the black arts. That's where they come from. (Piece of advice: You should consider going through historical facts before you give an argument, it would be very helpful so that your statements won't get any rebuttals) Rowling got the idea already from creatures created by our ancestors. Ever heard of Chimaeras? They are just creatures whose body parts were just mixed from different animals. People must have thought it would be interesting to see a human body with a cat's head (Like the Egyptians, as they worship cats for saving them from a plague of pests) Creatures and characters in Harry Potter, already had an inspiration. Otherwise, witchcraft should have no historical record.
Um, are you seriously saying that magic is real, and that it's just a test of your faith? ...I'm not even going to bother with this one.5. (Whoever said magic didn't exist? Only the people in Dark ages said it was a thing of evil, like alchemy and witchcraft. Magic had happened in our history, around the time of the Dark Ages) The part where witchcraft and magic existed in our history have happened for a reason. In my faith, I believe it's a challenge to us, whether we stick to our faith or to another cult. For history, people who doubted of God probably introduced it. Or people who just studies chemicals and makes experiments, our early scientists, were not accepted in the society for others believe that it was wrong or against God.
#6268
Cougar Draven
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Posted 25 May 2009 - 02:26 PM
Each in order:Matthew 12:46-50: Verse 47 is the real point here, but not all manuscripts include it in that fashion. In addition, the KJV uses "brethren" instead of "brothers", which is a different concept.Matthew 13:55-56: It's only really helpful to read verses 55 and 56 if you read from 53 to 58 as well. That said, this is acceptable.That said, I'm conceding this point. Never really had an issue with it in the first place, just wanted to see some evidence.Oh there is lots of evidence of Jesus having brothers:Mt 12,46-50; Mt 13,55.56; Mk 3,31; Mk 6,3; Joh 2,12; Joh 7,3.5; Apostles 1,14; Kor 9,5; Gal 1,19;I have several more but I don't find them now...
If your understanding of Christianity stops at what is written in the Bible, it is bound to be incomplete. The Logos is understood to be that which caused the cosmos to come into being, i.e. God. John 1:1 also identifies Jesus as an incarnation of the Logos.As for the Holy Spirit, and the actual existence of the Godhead, I recommend this as some decent reading. It sources every claim it makes.That's pretty vague evidence for Jesus, God and the Holy spirit being one and the same person
While this is all true, that doesn't mean anything. If you take the Bible without taking the other teachings handed down by the numerous councils, the argument isn't of Christianity, and as such cannot be answered.Furthermore, the New Testament as such was written decades after Christ's life, as has been said, I believe.Actually the Bible was written before the councils. The councils just decided which evangelia are put into the Bible (for example they didn't put in the Evangelium of Thomas into the Bible. He didn't use rethorical devices and just strung together all of Jesu similes)I just don't believe what they decided in a council 1000 years ago, because if al were right what they concluded there wouldn't have followed so many councils after the first one.
Then He is not an omnipotent God.Hey if i could answer those kind of questions, wouldn't his discussion be pointless? We can only assume what God can do. I suppose he can. For example he seems not to be able to destroy angels (example: Luzifer)
#6269
Guest_southerncross4033
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Posted 26 May 2009 - 02:33 AM
I'm not really sure if there's a God or not. Evolution is a solid theory, but I'm a Christian and I've been raised my whole life to believe in God. If there really is a God, I don't know if I would worship it either, and I don't know if it would be good or bad. Having one person control every aspect of your life doesn't sound comforting to me. I'd rather believe that I make my own decisions without anything higher up influencing me. If there is a God, he's made my life hard, and so right now I'm leaning towards being atheistic.
#6270
Ragamuffin
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Posted 29 May 2009 - 05:33 AM
That's not a debate, that's a cheap scare tactic that wouldn't even work on most ten year olds.I have a very hard time believing that some omnipotent being would care if someone believed he/she/it existed or not.I leave you with this, it would be better to believe in God and to be proven wrong at the end of your life, than to be not believe in God and be proven wrong and spend an eternity in hell because of it. Just a thought...
A state of war only serves as an excuse for domestic tyranny. -Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn
#6271
reddeath26
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Posted 30 May 2009 - 03:24 AM
The biggest issue I see from your post is the amazing level of cultural ignorance you are showing. You are making the highly ethnocentric mistake of applying values and norms from an unrelated culture to another. For instance in regards to the believe in magic there are several cultures around the world who hold such a belief. If one was to study their belief they would need to look at it from their perspective. After all studying other cultures is about "seeing it from the natives perspective".1. Experience. Through daydreams, I experience being a wizard. Through books, my experiences are being relived. The Harry Potter series is a reflection of our contemporary society.2. Fandom. There are different fan group but all of them have a central worshiped entity. Like DBSK, Konoha Ninja Academy ... It is all just the same entity in different names. What we want to be to escape the passing days of our boring lives. Mine just happens to be Harry Potter.3. Magical powers... Or in other words, magic. Some people claim that they have experienced it but we cannot prove its existence. Witches and mages, they must be real. Where did they come from? An alternate reality obviously. Rowling must be a creative genius to be able to conjure such vivid characters in our minds. They must be real.4. Gchenz's theory of everything. Everything must have happened for a reason and there is a reason for everything. If science cannot prove that magic does not exist, it must exist then. MAGIC IS REAL EVERYONE!!!!
#6272
Guest_gamerlockheart
Guest_gamerlockheart
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Posted 31 May 2009 - 05:12 AM
God is described as omniscient(all knowing), omnipotent(all powerful), and omnibenevolent(all good). If so, he should know the future, have to power to prevent natural calamities, and will prevent coz he's all good, right?
#6273
Guest_5i1v4n7i4n
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Posted 31 May 2009 - 02:19 PM
I believe that religion is the cause of to many problems in our world, and simply isn't worth it, they say it gives us hope and something to look forward to ... I rather not delude myself and just have fun while I'm here and if there's something waiting lease I did want I wanted to. Rather not regret anything in my life well that's what I am for.
#6274
Guest_Jouten
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Posted 31 May 2009 - 04:44 PM
Religion is just something that doesn't fit in our time.In the antique Religion held peoples together. This only works if one people believes in one Religion. Moses for example gave the jew slaves in egypt so much hope they could escape from the tyranny of the pharao. In the modern world of globalization where Religion is a private issue god is just temporary and unimportant.I believe that religion is the cause of to many problems in our world, and simply isn't worth it, they say it gives us hope and something to look forward to ... I rather not delude myself and just have fun while I'm here and if there's something waiting lease I did want I wanted to. Rather not regret anything in my life well that's what I am for.
Edited by Jouten, 31 May 2009 - 04:45 PM.
#6275
reddeath26
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Posted 01 June 2009 - 02:34 AM
A look over various different cultures shows that religion can be quite efficient at providing social stability and cohesion. Your attempt to try and simply provide a universal answer based so heavily on your own ethnocentric views, is doomed to fail from the word go. In order to understand the role religion plays, one needs to have a better understanding of historical and cultural context. Quite it will be heavily dependent on the culture in question.I believe that religion is the cause of to many problems in our world, and simply isn't worth it, they say it gives us hope and something to look forward to ... I rather not delude myself and just have fun while I'm here and if there's something waiting lease I did want I wanted to. Rather not regret anything in my life well that's what I am for.
