ok.. my bad
God real or not?
Started by
Guest_stubblehamster
, Feb 15 2005 12:22 AM
6399 replies to this topic
#202
Guest_mplacki
Guest_mplacki
-
- Guest
Posted 18 February 2005 - 03:49 AM
Sheesh, I'm gone for a few hours and everyone's gone on without me. :DIn no place, ever, has any true Muslim suggested that God (or Allah in Arabic) said, "Kill all Jews." In fact, the first allies that the Muslims ever had were the Jews living in Medina. One of my best friends is Jewish. The only Muslims that say all Jews need to die are the ones that have decided to twist their religion, in which case they are no longer Muslims.It really irks me when people say that we are all bloodthirsty terrorists. :angry:EDIT: I also have another question for all of you who say God doesn't exist.Where did all the matter in the universe come from?No, the Big Bang Theory is not the answer. That explains how the planets and galaxies formed and began orbits around each other, but that doesn't tell me where all the material came from in the first place. You can't expect me to believe that there was no universe, there was nothing, then all of a sudden there was a huge explosion and all sorts of matter appeared in the middle of our universe and formed planets and galaxies. My answer is that God created all matter that you see in this universe. What's yours?
Edited by mplacki, 18 February 2005 - 03:59 AM.
#203
Guest_cerebral assasin
Guest_cerebral assasin
-
- Guest
Posted 18 February 2005 - 04:04 AM
There is definitely a GOD .. a Machine has a creator .. and as far as I can see we are that machine that able to think and decide .. He is the Prime Mover .. the architect of everything
#204
Guest_stubblehamster
Guest_stubblehamster
-
- Guest
Posted 18 February 2005 - 04:04 AM
are you muslim mplacki?
#205
Guest_mplacki
Guest_mplacki
-
- Guest
Posted 18 February 2005 - 04:08 AM
Yes, I'm Muslim. I'm proud of it, too. But does that really make a difference in this topic?The argument here is whether God exists, not whether Chrisitanity is more accurate than Islam, or vice-versa. I think we can agree in this topic. 
#206
Riki
-
- Active Member
-
- 59 posts
Hatchling
Reputation: 0
Neutral
Posted 18 February 2005 - 04:17 AM
You should not ask anyone to give you proof of something that is beyond the human scope of understanding in the same way I cannot ask you to show me the how God created the universe. Although it may be written in the Qu'uran or Torah or Bible it was written by man and is beyond us is the sense that we can not know the mechanism used by God to create universe. On a side note mplacki tell me what you know about the Jinn*shaaytans race*
***Image exceeds limit, removed!***
#207
Guest_deadremix
Guest_deadremix
-
- Guest
Posted 18 February 2005 - 04:24 AM
i say god and religion are not real they are juss made up by some people
#208
Guest_The_1ron_lung
Guest_The_1ron_lung
-
- Guest
Posted 18 February 2005 - 04:34 AM
i'm sorry mplacki ,it was I who said that the muslims said kill all jews.. i didnt mean it in that way though.. i only meant the radical ones in iraq and iran and middle eastern counrties.. im friends with alot of muslims, and they're very nice people, i meant no offense.. my bad___---Edit---___And dont you just love it when people just run in here say something, provide no proof of anything, and give nothing productive to the conversation and leave.. i know i just freakin LUV IT
Edited by The_1ron_lung, 18 February 2005 - 04:36 AM.
#209
Guest_mplacki
Guest_mplacki
-
- Guest
Posted 18 February 2005 - 04:36 AM
I actually wish I knew mmore about Jinn (Genie in English, and no I'm am not referring to the one in Aladdin ). However, here's what I do know, both about Shaitan (Lucifer/Devil) in particular the race in general.Humans are a life-form based on dust (carbon). Jinn are based on fire, and live in a seperate dimension from us. They can enter the physical world that we see, but they can't always take physical form - the majority of their being is concentrated in the material world.Unlike the angels (and similar to humans), Jinn can commit sins. As such, I assume that they also have their own prophets and religions, although this may or may not be true.That's about all I know off the top of my head, and I don't want to say something that's wrong, so I'm afraid I have to stop here.EDIT: To Iron_lung:I'm from Iran, and I'm not radical. Strike 2. j/kI know what you mean, though. Suicide bombers and Al-Qaeda are what I'm sure you mean, and, as I said, people who blow up innocent civilians are not muslims in my book.And I love it too when people just say stuff with no backup. deadremix, you say there's no God? That's nice. Now back that statement up for me.
). However, here's what I do know, both about Shaitan (Lucifer/Devil) in particular the race in general.Humans are a life-form based on dust (carbon). Jinn are based on fire, and live in a seperate dimension from us. They can enter the physical world that we see, but they can't always take physical form - the majority of their being is concentrated in the material world.Unlike the angels (and similar to humans), Jinn can commit sins. As such, I assume that they also have their own prophets and religions, although this may or may not be true.That's about all I know off the top of my head, and I don't want to say something that's wrong, so I'm afraid I have to stop here.EDIT: To Iron_lung:I'm from Iran, and I'm not radical. Strike 2. j/kI know what you mean, though. Suicide bombers and Al-Qaeda are what I'm sure you mean, and, as I said, people who blow up innocent civilians are not muslims in my book.And I love it too when people just say stuff with no backup. deadremix, you say there's no God? That's nice. Now back that statement up for me.
Edited by mplacki, 18 February 2005 - 04:39 AM.
#210
Guest_The_1ron_lung
Guest_The_1ron_lung
-
- Guest
Posted 18 February 2005 - 04:41 AM
yeah.. ive heard of that.. never really got into it though.. life already too crowded to look it up.. but just for you ill google. it scince ur so dang cool
#211
Riki
-
- Active Member
-
- 59 posts
Hatchling
Reputation: 0
Neutral
Posted 18 February 2005 - 04:44 AM
You know no more about the Jinn than that brother? Do you believe in Jinn or are you one who believes they are a fairy tale?Where do you stop? I'm just wondering about where everyone who believes in God stops on using science? I know some people that will completely dismiss atoms and the like and others who try and incorporate science into the belief of God. Where do you stop?
***Image exceeds limit, removed!***
#212
Guest_The_1ron_lung
Guest_The_1ron_lung
-
- Guest
Posted 18 February 2005 - 04:47 AM
i apply god to acts of miracles and such, i mean God is God, and created everything, but he created it intricately liek as in atoms and such and molecules and elements, i am still a scientist at heart
#213
Riki
-
- Active Member
-
- 59 posts
Hatchling
Reputation: 0
Neutral
Posted 18 February 2005 - 04:50 AM
So do you believe what they publish in scientific journals and literature? I just dont understand! Do you believe some aspects of science and not others*big bang theory*?
***Image exceeds limit, removed!***
#214
Guest_The_1ron_lung
Guest_The_1ron_lung
-
- Guest
Posted 18 February 2005 - 04:53 AM
yes.. i dont believe in the BBT, God created it, but who said he had to use big building blocks, i mean its very obvious atoms are there, we can see them, so i think God created things that go from smaller to bigger
#215
Guest_phi_epsilon
Guest_phi_epsilon
-
- Guest
Posted 18 February 2005 - 04:54 AM
There is a lot of good creation science at www.drdino.comBy the way, the big bang theory, and evolution are NOT science. They are religion. It takes the same, if not more, faith to accept big bang and evolution as it does to believe that a coherant God created everything.
Edited by phi_epsilon, 18 February 2005 - 04:55 AM.
#216
Riki
-
- Active Member
-
- 59 posts
Hatchling
Reputation: 0
Neutral
Posted 18 February 2005 - 04:56 AM
We actually cant see atoms! We only infer their existence using indirect tests. Evolution can be tested though so how can it be religion? There is no leap of Faith in evolution! We can actually make a species evolve given time and patience.
Edited by Riki, 18 February 2005 - 04:58 AM.
***Image exceeds limit, removed!***
#217
Guest_The_1ron_lung
Guest_The_1ron_lung
-
- Guest
Posted 18 February 2005 - 04:57 AM
well yes.. tahts what i meant.. but here mplacki...The jinn are NOT fallen angels. They were created from a smokeless flame of fire. The first recorded jinn to be disobedient is Iblis. Disbelieving, disobedient jinn and humans are known as shayateen (satans). The Noble Qur'an - Ar-Rahmaan 55:15, 15 He created man (Adam) from sounding clay like the clay of pottery.And the jinns did He create from a smokeless flame of fire. Allah made all the jinn subservient to the Prophet Sulaimaan (Solomon), a gift from Allah, swt, that will never be granted to another after him. The Noble Qur'an - Saad 38:35-39 35. He said: "My Lord! Forgive me, and bestow upon me a kingdom such as shall not belong to any other after me: Verily, You are the Bestower." 36. So, We subjected to him the wind, it blew gently to his order whithersoever he willed, 37. And also the Shayâtin (devils) from the jinns (including) every kind of builder and diver, 38. And also others bound in fetters. 39. [Saying of Allâh to Sulaimân (Solomon)]: "This is Our gift, so spend you or withhold, no account will be asked." http://www.geocities...3/Jinn/faq.html
Edited by The_1ron_lung, 18 February 2005 - 05:07 AM.
#218
Guest_phi_epsilon
Guest_phi_epsilon
-
- Guest
Posted 18 February 2005 - 05:01 AM
Actually, no we can't see evolution. We've seen micro-evolution (aka adaptation) but no one has ever seen, for example, a dog produce a non-dog. Science is the ability to observe and reproduce something. I have never seen one species give way to a totally new species, nor has anyone else.Evolution is a religion, and a very shaky and unstable one at best.We actually cant see atoms! We only infer their existence using indirect tests. Evolution can be tested though so how can it be religion? There is no leap of Faith in evolution! We can actually make a species evolve given time and patience.
#219
Guest_The_1ron_lung
Guest_The_1ron_lung
-
- Guest
Posted 18 February 2005 - 05:06 AM
well i dotn think evolution is a religon.. you dont pray to it, worship it or anything religon-y with/for/to it, its just a belief, and a very shaky and unstable on at that
#220
Riki
-
- Active Member
-
- 59 posts
Hatchling
Reputation: 0
Neutral
Posted 18 February 2005 - 05:08 AM
Um well didnt you just prove my point by saying that we see micro-evolution? Micro-evolution is the precursor to evolution. One thing that you have to get straight is that one species doesnt usually replace another anyways. Over time one may be more fit and therefore survive. You proved my point because with enough micro-evolution we can produce a species with enough genetic dissimilarity that it will produce infertile offspring*eg a mule* and after more micro evolution the parent species will not be able to mate with its more "evolved" cousin therefore creating a new species!
***Image exceeds limit, removed!***
#221
Guest_phi_epsilon
Guest_phi_epsilon
-
- Guest
Posted 18 February 2005 - 05:09 AM
Religion defines who you are, where you're going, what your purpose is, and who you are to serve.If evolution is true:We are all just random matterWe return to dustWe have no purpose but to consume, and reproduceand we serve ourselves and our best intterest.I'd say that evolution is a religion.EDIT:There are six types of evolution. The only one that holds any water is adaptation. Adaptation has NEVER produced MACRO evolution (i.e. one TYPE of animal giving birth to a different TYPE of animal). If this is not true, cite, for me, the recorded scientific evidence. Because I've never heard of any.Once again, any type of evolution besides adaptation is based merely on faith and lies.
Edited by phi_epsilon, 18 February 2005 - 05:13 AM.
#222
Guest_The_1ron_lung
Guest_The_1ron_lung
-
- Guest
Posted 18 February 2005 - 05:12 AM
actually mules cant procreate.. theyre sterile, so they arnt a species because of it but really evolution is nothing more than strongest animal lives longest right.. if there are birds in a place with lots of nuts, but little berries, the bird with a harder beak will get more food and produce more offspring, and have strong babies.. and so on and so forth... its not liek an animal thinks "Grow a horn, Grow a horn, Grow a horn, Grow a horn" and it happens.. a lot of ppl i know think that.. well for the night i must sign off.. school tomorrow my 14 year old self must rest
#223
Riki
-
- Active Member
-
- 59 posts
Hatchling
Reputation: 0
Neutral
Posted 18 February 2005 - 05:12 AM
Evolution by no means constitutes a religion, well the way you describe it it sounds like atheism but that still doesnt make it a religion. It isnt organized or have any guideline or anything that can make it even resemble a religion.
***Image exceeds limit, removed!***
#224
Guest_phi_epsilon
Guest_phi_epsilon
-
- Guest
Posted 18 February 2005 - 05:16 AM
Okay, bro, I think we have some misunderstanding here ...How about you do me a favor and define what 'religion' is for us? Thanks B)
#225
Guest_Hyper5
Guest_Hyper5
-
- Guest
Posted 18 February 2005 - 05:19 AM
Ehem. Science is truth through view only of logic and so called "laws" that we have established as people by what is percieved as possible and impossible. If truth only exists through logic faith does not exist. If faith exists what there is faith in does exist in the minds and hearts of the ones that are faithful. This becomes truth to those faithful. To simplify.If you believe in god, god exists.If you don't believe in god, god does not exist.Oh and this.re·li·gion ( P ) Pronunciation Key (r-ljn)n. Belief in and reverence for a supernatural power or powers regarded as creator and governor of the universe. A personal or institutionalized system grounded in such belief and worship. The life or condition of a person in a religious order. A set of beliefs, values, and practices based on the teachings of a spiritual leader. A cause, principle, or activity pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion.
Edited by Hyper5, 18 February 2005 - 05:21 AM.
