526 replies to this topic

[38542788]

I'd hope you wouldn't kill _any_ child over 6 months old. If you're referring to a foetus; that IS illegal, and for a reason. 3 months from conception is the "deadline".

Where are you talking about exactly? I'm pretty sure that this isn't universally true in the US since these laws are pretty much federalized.Any why do you mention 6 months? I'd personally rather use sapience as a measure of personhood, but there are some obvious problems with applying that. Is the third trimester supposed to be the threshold for sentience?

[38542788]

Universally true; no, but overall. There are only a handful of countries which have made abortion illegal, and they are all mostly poor Catholic countries. There might be differences in laws; but I have never heard of abortion being illegal in any single state.

I meant past the second trimester, you said that it was illegal, I'm saying that this is not necessarily the case. (Though you also mention 3 months after conception for some reason).

I guess you didn't read what I was replying to.Personally I am also inclined to use sapience as a measure of "personhood" (or sentience in general), and I see no "obvious" problems with applying that. I have no idea why the third trimester is chosen as the "point of no return".

Using sentience is pretty pointless, even a fish is sentient (or for an example more pertinent to this, someone who's in a persistent vegetative state can still have a small degree of sentience while completely lacking sapience.The obvious problem with applying that measure is that it's pretty hard to tell if something is acting with judgment, it's something that evolves in degrees and it's hard to put a floor to it. Is a one year old sapient?I was assuming by your post that you supported limits to abortion access based on the stage of pregnancy, if you're saying instead that such laws happen to be the norm, I'm saying that it's not enough of one to state it as a fact (ie. that IS illegal, and for a reason. 3 months from conception is the "deadline".)

[38542788]

Abortion is only legal under normal circumstances during the first trimester. There would have to be some kind of extreme problem for the mother to have a legal abortion after that; one that would endanger the mother's life (never heard of it being done legally after the first trimester without something like that).Three months from conception is the deadline unless there are complications in the pregnancy; in which case an exception would be made. Laws very from country to country; and so I am merely going on the norm of laws. Some countries have banned it all-together, some are very strict on it, whereas others have 3 months with exceptions.I suspect the reason why the first trimester is the limit is that after that, the abortion becomes far more complicated (not that it happens in a day; but because the foetus grows more and more, it will be much harder to, uh, abort).

I don't know about the distribution of laws around the world, but GIS for "abortion gestational age" would seem to suggest it isn't something incredibly rare.

[reaperfish]

Is it better to kill the fetus before it can feel that it's alive than to bring it up in an environment where it's not wanted? If the mother doesn't want the baby, is it ethical to bring a child up into that kind of life?Also, what about cases of rape? Is bringing up a child like that actually beneficial to anyone? If the child is going to be born with a disease or handicap, and we know about it, should we prevent it?If the mother's health is at risk, who is more important, the fetus or the mother?Personally, I think that the baby isn't alive - therefor an abortion is ok - until it can survive outside the mother's womb.

[Ragamuffin]

I'm likely not going to say anything that hasn't been said already, but here goes.Personally, I'm against abortion would be the short answer, but since this is debates, I'll elaborate some.I feel that many young teens in America like the idea of motherhood, and think they're being "grown-up" by getting knocked up (high schools even have pregnancy cliques), and when they finally realize that having a kid is more work than say, having a new purse, they want the fetus out of them ASAP, which is really sad on their part, as well as the parents for not teaching those young girls the gravity of a situation like that. I realize this isn't a majority, but it's part of the reason why I'm against on a personal level.Now, a scenario where I'd be pro-choice on a personal level would be if the woman got raped, or found out that she was terminally ill and couldn't take care of her kid, etc etc, something that would drastically lower the quality of life for the mother/child basically.Legally speaking, I'm pro-choice; again I'm personally against it but it's not my say what others do. In America, many of our laws are based off of the Bible, which is why the religous groups here go crazy and start bombing abortion clinics, which is completly hypocritical of them given their stance on human life.