I myself have gone through intense stages of depression, where I seriously contemplated killing myself... However, I'm glad I didn't because life always gets better. There are always going to be dark times in your life, but it's the bright patches that count. I stuck through to the present and I have to say that it took a lot of work to get out of that depression...even so, I have to say that it is definitely the coward's way out.
Suicide: a coward's way out or a human's right?
Started by
Guest_manoki
, May 31 2008 11:24 PM
333 replies to this topic
#177
Guest_allan234
Guest_allan234
-
- Guest
Posted 20 December 2008 - 08:35 PM
I do not believe that suicide is a "cowards way out". There are people who have had very little reason to kill themselves. Look at Richard Brautigan for example. He lived with very little money for awhile, then after righting his first book he became very famous. He always had money after that. He still had his daughter, Ianthe, after his divorce. But even so he killed himself in 1984. No one knows why, even Ianthe wrote a book of her life with him called You Can't Catch Death, in which he said to her that he would have killed himself but didn't want her to find the body at 14 years old.
#178
Guest_raycrm
Guest_raycrm
-
- Guest
Posted 21 December 2008 - 08:35 AM
Like people often says:"Suicide is a permanent resort to a temporary problem"But in my opinion, suicide is not even a resolutionIt is just simply pass the problem to those around youand it will cause more problemFace the worse is the only way out, suicide is nothing but foolish and cowardly actionPOINTS were deducted for this post by -Mario-Please refer to the forum rules to find out why your points were deducted.
#179
yoru.kanashimi
-
- Member
-
- 56 posts
Hatchling
Reputation: 0
Neutral
Posted 22 December 2008 - 10:33 PM
oh wow... i only just got an email that there were replies to this post today... my apologies for not watching it more closely.when i said "existentially speaking" i was referring to the philosophical ideals of existentialism itself, particularly, absurdism. life is supposed to be a constant awareness of the freedom that man carries, to constantly choose, and nothing else in life is as important as that ideal of constant personal freedom. therefore, acting in a way as to destroy that freedom is the worst thing that anyone could do. it's less about it ending life, as life itself (outside of the individual) is absurd and meaningless, than it is about avoidance of existence.
#180
Guest_Balore
Guest_Balore
-
- Guest
Posted 22 December 2008 - 11:05 PM
No problem.This freedom that you speak of is only being destroyed in one person (someone who is apparently willing to make that sacrifice), so I don't see what the problem is. Their death isn't affecting anyone else's personal freedoms. Now, if this person somehow had the power to completely destroy everyone's freedom, I'd agree with you in an instant, but that's obviously not the case.What's with this air of guilt and shame surrounding the avoidance of existence? Why is it considered such a cowardly thing to do? The people who advocate this type of view usually make the claim that "suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem." Yeah, sure; that's true in a lot of instances, but not all, and what gives others the knowledge necessary to point out which is which? Only the suicidal person in question knows which scenario he/she is in, and it's not as easy for them to figure it out in their head as people make it seem. All we can do is encourage said person to do a little introspection and hope that they figure it out in time.oh wow... i only just got an email that there were replies to this post today... my apologies for not watching it more closely.when i said "existentially speaking" i was referring to the philosophical ideals of existentialism itself, particularly, absurdism. life is supposed to be a constant awareness of the freedom that man carries, to constantly choose, and nothing else in life is as important as that ideal of constant personal freedom. therefore, acting in a way as to destroy that freedom is the worst thing that anyone could do. it's less about it ending life, as life itself (outside of the individual) is absurd and meaningless, than it is about avoidance of existence.
#181
Guest_ligthknigth
Guest_ligthknigth
-
- Guest
Posted 23 December 2008 - 09:14 PM
The suicide, elementaly is a escape of life of someone by there own hands. I'll call it a selfish act, because normally is to ''save'' their honor. The decision of killing himself is very difficult to take, but there are a serie of motives that people think is worthy of their lives. In Japan, samurais do the harakiri when they were defeated to save their honor, in the grat depression of 1920, people kill himself because they don't want to pass their debts to their sons. The think of selfishness goes because most of the motives are personal and they don't care about others opinions. Love and drugs are things that usually people use it to explain their suicide. Your girlfriend left you? so what, there are thousend of woman outside. Your parents doesn't understand/love you? Talk to them, if they didn't love you they already will leave you in an orphange. Everybody hates you? what are you parents?. Everybody bothers me? so what, if they tell you nagthy things of your mother, tell them naugthier of theirs. If they punch you, punch them harder. Do you have a terminal illness?wll live with it, and stop whining!. Confront the problems, don't escape of it. The world wont stop if you kill yourself, it will continue to revolve and rotate, and people will continue their live. Nobody will miss you anymore, because you'll be just a dead body and not a living person!
#182
Guest_Whazzaabi
Guest_Whazzaabi
-
- Guest
Posted 27 December 2008 - 03:52 AM
As someone who has considered his options, so to speak, I certainly have feelings about this subject. This past year in particular has been a very challenging one, and if I had owned a gun, I quite possibly would have ended it, more times than I could count. If I had, I think it would be MY right to do so. I have had enough of people trying to control me, and if there is one thing I think I should be able to control, if I feel like, is when my life ends. Does that make me a coward? I don't think so, I consider it controlling my own destiny. Everybody's situations are personal to them. I don't expect anyone to understand why someone would want to kill themselves if they have not had similar experiences. In my situation, I am intelligent (IQ over 130), in good health (as far as I know), and physically capable of doing pretty much anything I want (within reason). Unfortunately for me, I have made some decisions that have been a bit counter productive for a happy existence. I'm sure I am a bit older than most of the people on the board, but not old enough that I couldn't still have a happy/fulfilling existence. I think because I know that, plus my 4 kids, is the only reason I have not done it. Unfortunately I feel like I am in a catch 22. Some of the solutions to make my life better might result in losing the only reasons I have to live.End result. I don't think killing yourself is cowardly, I think it's your choice/right. But I do think you should consider the ramifications of what you are doing. In my situation, I couldn't do it to my kids. Living in misery is better than making them miserable the rest of their lives, and possibly making them feel guilty about it.
#183
Guest_JhetGheyl
Guest_JhetGheyl
-
- Guest
Posted 28 December 2008 - 07:12 AM
every one has his own way to solve his/her problems.. probably suicide was his/her way of solving it..POINTS were deducted for this post by -Mario-Please refer to the forum rules to find out why your points were deducted.
#184
Guest_ocarina116
Guest_ocarina116
-
- Guest
Posted 08 June 2009 - 07:52 AM
personally i think it is cowardly. if you cannot deal with something and you see that killing yourself is the only answer then you obviously cannot think of any way to seek help or tackle a problem. this said though is emotionaly unsensative and that suicide should never had been an answer for anyone ever. suicide is a sad story and hard to deal with. which brings me to hte stupidity in it. People who commit suicide either A(the rude option) have no one that cares for them or at least that is how they think or B(the other rude option) do not care about those they will emotionaly harm. But as I said before i would prefer if suicide didnt exist.
#185
*Chewbacca*
-
- Member
-
- 531 posts
Super human cyborg thing
Reputation: 18
Neutral
Posted 08 June 2009 - 05:25 PM
Well, honestly suicide is always and will always be the way of the cowards or the ones who cant face up to a challenge, well at least for me.There maybe a numerous difficulties in our life, but ending one's life isn't really how one should solve the problem.Like they say -"Life isn't a bed of roses".Well if every one would have chosen this path, just think what state mankind would have been in, we would still be savages.Various scientists have made so many discoveries, but only after facing numerous and almost unconquerable difficulties.But they never gave up,instead they tried till the very end and as a result,I can type through a computer today or maybe even visit DG through the internet.
Edited by Chewbacca*, 08 June 2009 - 05:28 PM.
#186
Guest_mangafreak150
Guest_mangafreak150
-
- Guest
Posted 08 June 2009 - 05:34 PM
i think that really depends on the persona nd their situation they are in, for some its just an easy way out, but for others its really a right they have and a choice they have to get out of there mess
#187
Guest_AnagramJessie
Guest_AnagramJessie
-
- Guest
Posted 08 June 2009 - 05:51 PM
So why shouldn't a person who never wished to deal with these challenges be allowed to avoid them? There are people who never wanted to be born in the first place- it wasn't their choice. They don't want to have to deal with problems, and they're not gaining anything by living. So why are people not able to commit suicide without others seeing them as cowards?There maybe a numerous difficulties in our life, but ending one's life isn't really how one should solve the problem.Like they say -"Life isn't a bed of roses".
Edited by AnagramJessie, 08 June 2009 - 05:52 PM.
#188
Guest_leizar71
Guest_leizar71
-
- Guest
Posted 09 June 2009 - 07:56 AM
suicide is a touchy subject. i believe there is no point in time where one has no other choice. life should always be first choice. God created everyone for a purpose. if anything, that purpose is to live and affect other's lives. no matter what, eveyone has affected someone else's life is some way every moment of every day. it cannot be stopped. the butterfly effect proves that everyone has a purpose in life.
#189
Ragamuffin
-
- Dragon's Sentinel
-
- 637 posts
Old Man Internet
Reputation: 232
Perfected
Posted 09 June 2009 - 10:50 AM
I agree that suicide can be cowardly, but in some cases I would welcome it. If I were terminally ill and had NO chance of recovery then I'd eat a bullet, yes.Also, playing devil's advocate here (and also speaking from personal experience), when your life gets to the point where you have no food, money, clothes, shelter or friends, and you've tried EVERYTHING in your power to make things work but nothing good comes of it, on top of having a drug problem, then yeah, suicide crosses one's mind quite often.Well, honestly suicide is always and will always be the way of the cowards or the ones who cant face up to a challenge, well at least for me.There maybe a numerous difficulties in our life, but ending one's life isn't really how one should solve the problem.Like they say -"Life isn't a bed of roses".Well if every one would have chosen this path, just think what state mankind would have been in, we would still be savages.Various scientists have made so many discoveries, but only after facing numerous and almost unconquerable difficulties.But they never gave up,instead they tried till the very end and as a result,I can type through a computer today or maybe even visit DG through the internet.
A state of war only serves as an excuse for domestic tyranny. -Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn
#190
*Chewbacca*
-
- Member
-
- 531 posts
Super human cyborg thing
Reputation: 18
Neutral
Posted 09 June 2009 - 05:07 PM
Well of course it crosses one's mind, I'd consider anyone in-human if it wouldn't cross their mind.But that doesn't exactly mean he needs to take that option.Has they say -"Survival of the strongest/fittest"....I do agree about some people being terminally ill and then opting to take away their life.But you see there isn't anything cowardly in that, in fact it's a matter of great courage to be wanting to end your life.I agree that suicide can be cowardly, but in some cases I would welcome it. If I were terminally ill and had NO chance of recovery then I'd eat a bullet, yes.Also, playing devil's advocate here (and also speaking from personal experience), when your life gets to the point where you have no food, money, clothes, shelter or friends, and you've tried EVERYTHING in your power to make things work but nothing good comes of it, on top of having a drug problem, then yeah, suicide crosses one's mind quite often.
#191
Guest_Elven Sniper
Guest_Elven Sniper
-
- Guest
Posted 09 June 2009 - 06:15 PM
In my opinion, theres no one single way to describe what suicide is except for an absolute tragedy. If someone is suffering mentally so much that they need to end their life then seriously who has the right to stop them? we can help them but most of them need to help themselves. And then you got to ask yourself about child suicide rates. Its horrible how 10-11 year old end their own life when lets be honest their life hasnt even begun!
#193
Guest_7eyey
Guest_7eyey
-
- Guest
Posted 09 June 2009 - 10:11 PM
I can never imagine what is going on in a person's head when that person decides to take his/her life. I tried to put myself in their shoe, and I imagine that it would take enormous courage to hurt yourself, but at the same time, it's a coward's response to life...I can't really judge if it's a coward's response or not, since I have no insight of a suicider's mind, however, I find it irresponsible in many cases. For, i believe everyone owes their life to their parents, family, friends, etc, there is more to life than just living for yourself. There is a definite joy when you accomplish something that people near you can admire, at the same time when you admire someone else close to you's work. So in conclusion i think suicide is a form of extreme self love, cowardly? maybe, but not definite for all i know.
#194
Guest_whitewing1004
Guest_whitewing1004
-
- Guest
Posted 12 June 2009 - 07:57 AM
You really don't need any courage to end your life. Sure death is a scary thing for the living, but when you're at a point where you're so discouraged and afraid of life that death seems nicer is when you're afraid of facing what life has to offer. I think that's more cowardly than being afraid of death. Fearing death is just realizing that we're not immortal, that what we have here will run out, and that we really don't have control over everything in our lives. Realizing how powerless we are over our own lives is just coming to face the truth. Living through that takes courage or a lot of ignorance. Ending your life when hope runs out is a selfish and shallow response, saying that "my life is my own and no one else's; hence I can end it when I choose."Is this really true? Should no one else have any ownership over you in any way? If your friend dies, doesn't it feel like a part of you just left you? It's painful because the bonds you shared with them have just been severed by their passing. Same applies to coworkers, peers, parents, family, spouses, significant others, children, etc. by killing yourself, you're deciding to cut your ties with these people, which is really choosing to love yourself more than you love others in order to protect yourself. Seems pretty cowardly to me. Not to mention petty, shallow, selfish, uncompromising, self-deluded, self-pitying, and a lot more negative adjectives that come to mind.
Edited by whitewing1004, 12 June 2009 - 07:58 AM.
#195
Guest_zz111
Guest_zz111
-
- Guest
Posted 13 June 2009 - 05:18 PM
i personally went trough a period in life were i felt everything was wrong and nothing could ever get right(teenage issues), but i personally overcame it. those kind of experience is not supposed to make you want to end your life but to make you stronger and better. anyone who suicides isn't week, but just narrow minded, they see things are going bad and can only see the negative side of everything, whereas they should try to see the positive side of life, the beauty of life...indeed it is a difficult process, but life ain't easy and noone can help you get what you want, you have to rely on you only and believe in yourself, cause one way or the other you can make it, you can get trough it!!!! also what gets really on my nerves is that they egoistically decide to end their lives without thinking about the people they leave behind them, people who need need them, people who love them!!! i just think it's not write, and that it shows only that you couldn't get the reason why we live: opportunity. if you die you lose your opportunity to be happy
#196
Guest_locallegend
Guest_locallegend
-
- Guest
Posted 15 June 2009 - 07:51 PM
1.What about the freedom of the parents and friends of the person who committed suicide? How many days do you think your parents and friends would spend wondering why you did it, why they failed to help, and why they are such terrible people as to not notice your pain to the extent you obviously were in? Your Birthday still rolls around once a year...do you really think a mom will ever stop thinking about you?"Only the suicidal person in question knows which scenario he/she is in, and it's not as easy for them to figure it out in their head as people make it seem" 2. We have seen every situation. We have been through every situation. We have seen worse and worse. Not individually, but as a population. That's why the single biggest step towards recovery is seeking support from people, professional or not. We have helped people recover from rape, from chronic illness, from mental disorder, from witnessing members of your family being killed around you, from coming home from war, from seeing children die in fires, from seeing your friends drown, from everything. 3. You can't fight depression by yourself. People that feel the need to kill themselves need to discuss they're problems so they can understand all sides and options of what is destroying they're lives.No problem.This freedom that you speak of is only being destroyed in one person (someone who is apparently willing to make that sacrifice), so I don't see what the problem is. Their death isn't affecting anyone else's personal freedoms. Now, if this person somehow had the power to completely destroy everyone's freedom, I'd agree with you in an instant, but that's obviously not the case.What's with this air of guilt and shame surrounding the avoidance of existence? Why is it considered such a cowardly thing to do? The people who advocate this type of view usually make the claim that "suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem." Yeah, sure; that's true in a lot of instances, but not all, and what gives others the knowledge necessary to point out which is which? Only the suicidal person in question knows which scenario he/she is in, and it's not as easy for them to figure it out in their head as people make it seem. All we can do is encourage said person to do a little introspection and hope that they figure it out in time.
#197
Ragamuffin
-
- Dragon's Sentinel
-
- 637 posts
Old Man Internet
Reputation: 232
Perfected
Posted 21 June 2009 - 09:51 AM
I disagree. When you kill yourself, you're going against every urge you have as a human to stay alive. Killing yourself isn't something that someone wakes up one day and decides to do.You really don't need any courage to end your life.
A state of war only serves as an excuse for domestic tyranny. -Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn
#198
Guest_Phenomenonsense
Guest_Phenomenonsense
-
- Guest
Posted 21 June 2009 - 10:03 PM
You should read up on an Existentialist Philosopher named Camus. He talks a lot about freedom, anguish, and the fact that most people don't matter, even the beauty in nature is non-existent without a consciousness to give it such value. Then he talks about suicide, which isn't a bad option because it doesn't matter one way or another. Anyway, after pages of text he talks about death. We are all doomed to death by the virtue of life. So, when nothing I do matters and everything I do is a progression toward death anyway, why not kill myself. Camus says we must revolt – against the inevitability of death, against the absurdity. It is in the absurdity and the revolt that we gain our meaning in life. Suicide is a capitulation to meaninglessness; revolt “gives life its value.” We embrace the absurd because we can defy it and treat it with scorn, and this is how we gain meaning.I disagree. When you kill yourself, you're going against every urge you have as a human to stay alive. Killing yourself isn't something that someone wakes up one day and decides to do.
#199
Ragamuffin
-
- Dragon's Sentinel
-
- 637 posts
Old Man Internet
Reputation: 232
Perfected
Posted 22 June 2009 - 04:49 AM
Interesting post, I will look into Camus a bit.However, even if we do not serve any great purpose in life and are just here by chance (which I believe btw), that still doesn't make it any easier to end ones life, at least not in my eyes, as it goes against our most basic of instincts. I hold a pretty nihilistic and misanthropic view on the world around me, but it wouldn't make offing myself any easier, but again that's just my take on it.You should read up on an Existentialist Philosopher named Camus. He talks a lot about freedom, anguish, and the fact that most people don't matter, even the beauty in nature is non-existent without a consciousness to give it such value. Then he talks about suicide, which isn't a bad option because it doesn't matter one way or another. Anyway, after pages of text he talks about death. We are all doomed to death by the virtue of life. So, when nothing I do matters and everything I do is a progression toward death anyway, why not kill myself. Camus says we must revolt – against the inevitability of death, against the absurdity. It is in the absurdity and the revolt that we gain our meaning in life. Suicide is a capitulation to meaninglessness; revolt “gives life its value.” We embrace the absurd because we can defy it and treat it with scorn, and this is how we gain meaning.
A state of war only serves as an excuse for domestic tyranny. -Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn
#200
Guest_locallegend
Guest_locallegend
-
- Guest
Posted 22 June 2009 - 10:26 PM
I see how that would take courage, even if not along the same lines as we usually credit courage. I remember reading years ago, after a man survived (barely) a suicide jump off the golden gate bridge, that the very second after releasing his grip on bridge he wanted more than anything survive and live a good life. I'm glad this debate has stayed open for so long, as I first posted here the summer of '08. My attitude to suicide and those who commit it has remained unchanged, but my understanding of suicide and its motivations has broadened. An open mind can see everything that is coming and is crucial if we want America to survive another 233 years.QUOTE (Death of Heavens @ Jun 21 2009, 04:03 PM) *You should read up on an Existentialist Philosopher named Camus. He talks a lot about freedom, anguish, and the fact that most people don't matter, even the beauty in nature is non-existent without a consciousness to give it such value. Then he talks about suicide, which isn't a bad option because it doesn't matter one way or another. Anyway, after pages of text he talks about death. We are all doomed to death by the virtue of life. So, when nothing I do matters and everything I do is a progression toward death anyway, why not kill myself. Camus says we must revolt – against the inevitability of death, against the absurdity. It is in the absurdity and the revolt that we gain our meaning in life. Suicide is a capitulation to meaninglessness; revolt “gives life its value.” We embrace the absurd because we can defy it and treat it with scorn, and this is how we gain meaning.His idea of embracing absurdity to gain meaning in life has an almost poetic feel to it. Thanks for introducing me to Camus's works.I disagree. When you kill yourself, you're going against every urge you have as a human to stay alive. Killing yourself isn't something that someone wakes up one day and decides to do.
Edited by locallegend, 22 June 2009 - 10:31 PM.
