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Suicide: a coward's way out or a human's right?

Started by Guest_manoki , May 31 2008 11:24 PM

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#201 Guest_Balore

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Posted 23 June 2009 - 12:26 AM

1.What about the freedom of the parents and friends of the person who committed suicide? How many days do you think your parents and friends would spend wondering why you did it, why they failed to help, and why they are such terrible people as to not notice your pain to the extent you obviously were in? Your Birthday still rolls around once a year...do you really think a mom will ever stop thinking about you?"Only the suicidal person in question knows which scenario he/she is in, and it's not as easy for them to figure it out in their head as people make it seem"

I never said your family, friends, and loved ones wouldn't suffer; they surely would to some extent. What I'm saying is that it can be very difficult for a suicidal person to understand the full potential of the pain they might cause. Also, what may have driven them to suicidal thoughts in the first place is the belief that they're not loved by anyone, therefore, they may have some difficulty in believing that anyone would truly care if they were to off themselves.

2. We have seen every situation. We have been through every situation. We have seen worse and worse. Not individually, but as a population. That's why the single biggest step towards recovery is seeking support from people, professional or not. We have helped people recover from rape, from chronic illness, from mental disorder, from witnessing members of your family being killed around you, from coming home from war, from seeing children die in fires, from seeing your friends drown, from everything.3. You can't fight depression by yourself. People that feel the need to kill themselves need to discuss they're problems so they can understand all sides and options of what is destroying they're lives.

Yes, suicidal people should absolutely seek help. The problem is that they often believe there is no help. Convincing them otherwise is what's so difficult.Always nice to see you post, LL.
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#202 Guest_shistsqueez

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Posted 23 June 2009 - 02:19 AM

My child hood friend killed himself when he was 14 and just about to get into highschool with me, it was the most depressing thing i had to experience, but at the same time i envy him because i dont have the will to do myself in but he is very missed and a part of me died when he did, but it is still a human right, if i ever got up the nerv to commit suicide i would want to jump in an active volcano :doom:
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#203 Guest_oakbarrel

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Posted 23 June 2009 - 02:30 AM

My friend is suffering from depression at the moment actually, he is sadly and has attempted suicide, its down to his body not absorbing the right chemicals in the head.I think he feels when he is down he thinks his body is failing him and gets further down into that hole of depression. The only advice I can ever offer anyone affect by this situation is that they/you (be it the sufferer or the friend of the affected) are not alone when dealing with this, talking does help so does writing music I feel.Over all I dont think its right to have it as a human right, im not heavily religious but who are we to play god...when its our time; its our time...the good lord will call our number.Then again I dont or wouldnt like to think of it as a cowards way out after all they really cant help it can they?Massive respect to everyone here.Oak
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#204 Guest_Phenomenonsense

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Posted 23 June 2009 - 05:57 AM

I see how that would take courage, even if not along the same lines as we usually credit courage. I remember reading years ago, after a man survived (barely) a suicide jump off the golden gate bridge, that the very second after releasing his grip on bridge he wanted more than anything survive and live a good life. I'm glad this debate has stayed open for so long, as I first posted here the summer of '08. My attitude to suicide and those who commit it has remained unchanged, but my understanding of suicide and its motivations has broadened. An open mind can see everything that is coming and is crucial if we want America to survive another 233 years.QUOTE (Death of Heavens @ Jun 21 2009, 04:03 PM) *You should read up on an Existentialist Philosopher named Camus. He talks a lot about freedom, anguish, and the fact that most people don't matter, even the beauty in nature is non-existent without a consciousness to give it such value. Then he talks about suicide, which isn't a bad option because it doesn't matter one way or another. Anyway, after pages of text he talks about death. We are all doomed to death by the virtue of life. So, when nothing I do matters and everything I do is a progression toward death anyway, why not kill myself. Camus says we must revolt – against the inevitability of death, against the absurdity. It is in the absurdity and the revolt that we gain our meaning in life. Suicide is a capitulation to meaninglessness; revolt “gives life its value.” We embrace the absurd because we can defy it and treat it with scorn, and this is how we gain meaning.His idea of embracing absurdity to gain meaning in life has an almost poetic feel to it. Thanks for introducing me to Camus's works.

Oh yes, I really do like Camus, and it's funny because he always said he wasn't a Philosopher. He said he was a writer, I think that's why his works have a "poetic justice" feel to them sometimes. He used to be my favorite Existentialist "philosopher" until I read Sartre. Perhaps not as poetic as Camus, but his works are pure genius. I mean, after reading his ideas on consciousness, I had a newfound respect for Buddhism. I don't know, ther just something about Being and Nothingness and Existentialism and Human Emotions that makes you see the world in a whole new light. Also, I don't know if you've ever read No Exit, by Sartre, but if you read it again after Being and Nothingness and Existentialism and Human Emotions, you see all of his views on human interaction come to fruition.
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#205 Guest_Erreip 199

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Posted 23 June 2009 - 03:18 PM

if people decide to suicide it means they werent satisfied with their life... so i dont think its cowardish its the crappy life they had that leaded them to it, its like if u had to tolerate some one bullying u everyday and enough is enough i guess so they decide to "leave" the "bully" behind
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#206 Kiba

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Posted 23 June 2009 - 06:25 PM

So Death is a logical choice to get away from a bully? The person who kills themselves couldn't have gone to a teacher, a principal or the school police officer? The person couldn't talk to their parents about? Honestly the idea that one commits suicide over a school bully, while it does happen, is a poor excuse to kill themselves.
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#207 Mirciox

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Posted 23 June 2009 - 07:17 PM

suicide is not a solution... anyway, life is difficult, but if you suicide, you won't be able to see the good part of life :P anyway, everybody dies, you just have to wait, no rush :PGPs were deducted for this post, please read the rules! - Milo-
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#208 Guest_vitaminvirus

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Posted 24 June 2009 - 11:56 PM

Suicide is a cowards way out, it's for someone who can't take the heat. I don't believe they're are "rights" in the world.
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#209 Guest_Duplicity

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Posted 25 June 2009 - 01:18 AM

I say suicide is a human's right--a sad right. Because most suicide victims suffer from depression. This depression can be chemical or caused by one's situation/environment. But for those who commit suicide because of situation/environment, one can't help but wonder why they choose suicide when others just like them don't. I think that boils down to personality and support base.Personality-wise, I believe some people have better coping skills than others; one person can deal with their negative emotions however strong, caused by whatever dreadful situation and the other can't. And I believe that those who might have been able to cope if they'd had a good support base will ultimately take their lives for lack of one.But then there's the other people who take their lives because of disease or a disability that is painfully to live with and also makes it hard to live independently within society. I believe that if good health care were provided to everyone and if there were more services available to help these people then they never would have fallen into suicidal thinking.And I don't think suicide is the cowards way out. It's cowardly to call these people cowards when one hasn't done any in depth research on suicide so as to get an understanding of why these people do it.

Edited by Duplicity, 25 June 2009 - 01:19 AM.

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#210 Guest_therealme2009

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Posted 25 June 2009 - 02:31 AM

i have to strongly disargee with you, i have been o medication now for 2 years, and im still fighting the urge to kill myself,,, its not the cowards way out in my casem i feel that this world just isnt right for me.
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#211 *Chewbacca*

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Posted 29 June 2009 - 06:00 PM

So why shouldn't a person who never wished to deal with these challenges be allowed to avoid them? There are people who never wanted to be born in the first place- it wasn't their choice. They don't want to have to deal with problems, and they're not gaining anything by living. So why are people not able to commit suicide without others seeing them as cowards?

It's never our choice.We are born into this world without our consent, and the brave know how to deal with it.There's a strange belief that every life's a test.The harder life gets, it just means god's testing you that much harder, and you need to just go that little extra mile to succeed.Ending your purpose of being born might solve your problem but at the same time give rise to hundred others.
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#212 Guest_raisewar

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Posted 30 June 2009 - 05:32 AM

I've heard many people say that suicide is selfish, lazy, and weak, but they are usually the ones that have never felt like there was no hope.

it is a cowards way out! instead of facing life and dealing with your problems you end that which could be turned around and become beautiful. I have had no hope at ome time in my life, but i overcame it and am now living a life i love.
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#213 Toph Bei Fong

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Posted 30 June 2009 - 11:31 PM

I've heard many people say that suicide is selfish, lazy, and weak, but they are usually the ones that have never felt like there was no hope.

(-)(-)=(+) (never)(no)="They never felt there was no hope." Remember that equation. The negative of negative is positive.Is that a typo error? If it is, then they only felt like there is no hope but actually, there is. If you mean the general hope. (Not like the hope that someone would arise from dead. I'm not sure if it's possible.)I do agree that they are selfish because they leave the ones that cares for them or might be that no one would feed his/her pet.I also do agree that they are lazy. They quit life to get a rest. It also applies to them being weak. They forfeit in the battle of life against the challenges ahead that their creator prepared for them.
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#214 Guest_Duplicity

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Posted 02 July 2009 - 09:12 AM

it is a cowards way out! instead of facing life and dealing with your problems you end that which could be turned around and become beautiful. I have had no hope at ome time in my life, but i overcame it and am now living a life i love.

There are many people who feel that way and are able to find strength within or without themselves to overcome that which would make them choose death. They are to be applauded for their strength.But what of the ones who don't have that strength? What of the ones who look inside and outside themselves to find power to overcome the darkness that overwhelms them more and more, day after day. Are we to look down on them and call them cowards because they lack what others have?

(-)(-)=(+) (never)(no)="They never felt there was no hope." Remember that equation. The negative of negative is positive.Is that a typo error? If it is, then they only felt like there is no hope but actually, there is. If you mean the general hope. (Not like the hope that someone would arise from dead. I'm not sure if it's possible.)I do agree that they are selfish because they leave the ones that cares for them or might be that no one would feed his/her pet.I also do agree that they are lazy. They quit life to get a rest. It also applies to them being weak. They forfeit in the battle of life against the challenges ahead that their creator prepared for them.

Are only the ones who leave loved ones and pets behind selfish? Because there are some people with no one to care for and no one who cares for them.And how does quitting something make someone lazy? Example: I start a puzzle, but quit halfway through because I find it too difficult and so find no enjoyment in it. Am I lazy for quitting something in which I find no enjoyment? And before you say it is crude to make a comparison between quitting a puzzle and quitting life, know that numerous depressed persons who eventually attempt suicide view life in such a way. A puzzle is nothing important. To them, life becomes nothing important. What I'm trying to say is that they have a mindset where life isn't anything much, there is no meaning. So they end their meaningless life. Do you have such a mindset? Obviously not. And if you ever have, then you most obviously overcame it. But some of these people didn't know they could overcome this feeling and so took their lives. They truly and honestly believe that death is the only way. They are incapable of understanding the truth: there is another way. And so they are ignorant. So then, does their ignorance make them lazy? Does their ignorance make them weak? If you still say yes, then why?
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#215 Guest_Georgie94

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Posted 08 July 2009 - 11:30 AM

Tough call really....We try to suicide,yet we can't...We feel bad about ourselves,we find meanings....I wouldn't think it's a coward's way.I think we humans deserve every right to do this.Basically we can't just call the person who suicides "selfish",we can't undertstand how he/she feels becuse we aren't them.Sure,we might go like "If I were him/her,I'd move on" or something like that,but we simply aren't who they are.............
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#216 Guest_hut2000t

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Posted 10 July 2009 - 05:22 AM

It is a human right that only cowards chose...doesn't that make sense? I does to me! And yes you do need some kind of courage to go through with it...but aren't you saying that you'll need more courage to not go through with it and work through your hardship?
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#217 Guest_Spellbound7

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Posted 10 July 2009 - 07:32 PM

it's not the cowards way out. some people have to much emotion or whatever you want to call it. What you do with your life is up to you, if you feel that bad that you want to end it then it is your option
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#218 Guest_ecw-rvd

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Posted 11 July 2009 - 01:52 AM

It really depends on the circumstances. There are peoples whose lives are so horrible that suicide really is the only way to escape certain physical or emotional traumas they have to go through on a daily basis. I know people whose life really is horrible beyond belief, and living day after day is a torture that is unbearable. For those that say it is a cowards way out, I bet they have never seen some pretty destructive lives certain people have gone through it would consider the issue so lightly. Someone has said somewhere in this topic that it is selfish because it hurts that people that love you, but there are people in this world who were unfortunate enough to have never been loved in their whole lives.But I have read stories where people have committed suicide for idiotic reasons, cowardly reasons, insane reasons, it is not really a topic that can be argued as a black and white thing such as "Any time suicide is done than it is obviously ... thing to do."Also I don't really understand the question a cowards way out or a humans right. It tries to combine two different aspects of suicide. Whether it is a brave or cowardly thing to do is asking whether the act itself describes the attributes a person has dealing with life. A humans right on the other hand would steer more towards the idea if people should even be allowed to commit the act. Maybe arguing that under religious teaching people have no right to commit suicide and argue it from that angle.
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#219 Guest_gamemaster-x

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Posted 12 July 2009 - 01:34 AM

Well it is a coward's way out because just cause your feeling down doesn't mean the world is ending because there might be people who care about you than knowing you killed yourself can hurt them so much it's basically a slap to the face to them because it's like you didn't care about their love towards you,you basically shoved it away and took the coward's way out
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#220 Guest_Duplicity

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Posted 12 July 2009 - 03:49 AM

Well it is a coward's way out because just cause your feeling down doesn't mean the world is ending because there might be people who care about you than knowing you killed yourself can hurt them so much it's basically a slap to the face to them because it's like you didn't care about their love towards you,you basically shoved it away and took the coward's way out

So you're saying that every person who commits suicide does so just because they're "feeling down." No. That's not why all people commit suicide. Some of the people who commit suicide suffer from painful illnesses and others live in run down retirement homes where they are repeatedly abused. These people see suicide as a means to an end to their suffering. A suffering that no one can or probably ever will relieve them from. And not everyone who commits suicide has someone who cares about them.
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#221 reddeath26

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Posted 12 July 2009 - 03:59 AM

Well it is a coward's way out because just cause your feeling down doesn't mean the world is ending because there might be people who care about you than knowing you killed yourself can hurt them so much it's basically a slap to the face to them because it's like you didn't care about their love towards you,you basically shoved it away and took the coward's way out

I would disagree with this assertion very strongly, in many instances when a person is seriously contemplating suicide they believe they are doing something positive for those they care about. Such people will commonly be highly depressed, which in turn will change they way they view things. It is because of this distortion in view that they may genuinely believe they are too much bother for the people who care about them. Sometimes they really believe that once they are gone, those close to them will be able to move on with their lives and be happy again. You also need to remember that some forms of depression are ongoing and can last for numerous years, with it being highly difficult for the person to enter a happy frame of mind.Then there are those who do it as Duplicity pointed out due to physical suffering. I would assert that physical and emotional sufferings can in their own ways be equally as damaging to the victim.Another call of point are those who sacrafice their lifes for a cause or belief. This does not have to mean people who literally kill themselves. But can include those who perform actions which they are sure they will die as a result. This can include journalists and activists who perform their work in countries where the State is highly hostile towards them. Examples of this include Sri Lanka, where journaists who dared to report on the crimes against the Tamils were essentially committing suicide (and a great many of them were killed by the State).
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#222 Guest_PaNiC DisOrDer

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Posted 12 July 2009 - 06:26 AM

Two words Clinically insane. Any person who has thought or have tried to kill themselves should be checked out at your local Loony Bin.GPs were deducted for this post, please read the rules! - KM_
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#223 Guest_inuashakent

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Posted 13 July 2009 - 07:42 AM

In my opinion, it's just the coward's way out. Anybody can just suicide. Everybody has problems, but we deal with it. Some people may have it harder than others, sure, but there's always a way.
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#224 Guest_Napoleonna

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Posted 14 July 2009 - 05:20 AM

I think it's just a sign of how painful someone's life really was. People are generally self destructive, and if one becomes too destructive I think it just shows how alienated and depressed/hurt someone is. I think it can be unfair to the person's family/friends/etc, but so is someone dying of emphezema from smoking too much or liver disease from drinking excessively. It's a physical destruction that most people inflict on themselves throughout their life, but those who are really depressed choose to do it all in one burst I suppose.
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#225 Guest_Jointsftw

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Posted 17 July 2009 - 02:46 AM

i'd have to say (even though i'm not suicidal) that the main reason why people commit suicide is either depression or pain. It isn't a cowards way out but it certainly not a human's right.I'm sorry actually human rights depend on the person so who are we to tell what is right or not. If it is depression then i think they should get help immediately before they commit suicide. But if it is pain i think then euthanasia should be used. I am not one for people to commit suicide but if there is too much pain then i think they should do as much as for possible before they can't do anything anymore.
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