119 replies to this topic

[Ragamuffin]

^ Huh? FF has always had good graphics (well, not FF7's in-games graphics, not the characters at least).I'm tired of seeing cookie-cutter characters in RPGs, random encounters every 5 seconds, (ToP for PSX ecspecially) and games that spell extreme with an X.I'm also tired of games that force tutorials on you.

[The Mothman]

People who fight with big swords and have spikey hair.

[nigredoz]

1) random encounters, that really pisses me off when ur tryin to get somewhere and every 3 steps you take u get into another battle 2) the same generic storyline for rpgs, it seems like a lot of them are really similar, they need to come up with some fresh ideas :wtf:3) battle style, just like with the storyline, the battle style tends to be the same with a lot of rpgs, it gets old =P

[miniassassin]

the people online who refer to everyone whos not them as a noob

[Saguchi]

I hate 3D games with guns in them. Seriously, have videogames been reduced to almost nothing but crappy-ass shooters? That's about all I see anymore.

"You must kill the dragon in the south cave, but a boulder is blocking the cave entrance. The town to the east makes dynamite, but it's been stolen by pirates. The pirates are at sea, so you'll need a ship. The town to the north has a ship, but the blacksmith owns it. He'll only give it to someone who can pass his feats of strength. The ninjas who lives in the mountains will train you, but at a price. They only accept obsidian. The only obsidian in the land is found in the fire caves, but the caves are guarded by the Golden Golems. They will not let anyone pass unless he can answer their riddles. The wisemen to the east may know the answers you seek, but they will not help you because their elder sage is deathly ill. He can only be cured by dragon's blood. There is only one dragon in the land. It is in the south cave. Good luck."I hate RPGs like these.

This post wins.

[Ragamuffin]

@Balore: Well, you say hair has had nothing to do with a game's popularity, but how many people know Cloud because of his hairstyle? Besides, I don't see why having un-natural colored hair can be seen as bothersome in video games. I mean, in alot of games, the characters often have exaggerated body parts/accesories, like an oversized sword, every other female character having a friggin' G-cup, lots of random belts hanging all over the place, etc. I'm not saying that those are all fantastic ideas or anything, but wouldn't a game be boring if all the characters looked just like us? If I wanted to see some average-looking guy with an average-looking haircut wearing average-looking clothes in hi-def, hell I'd just walk right outside.@Guy above me: Eh? FPS games do seem to have gotten alot of coverage this past year or two, but they only make up a small fraction of what's released to the market weekly.

[Ragamuffin]

Yes, it's certainly easier to recognize a character if their hair is ridiculous, but I have trouble believing it actually contributes to their popularity.

Well, it makes them more memorable and more recognizable, so if someone sees that particular character in another game, the chances of them getting said game are that much more likely because they see a "unique" character that they like in it. Not just limited to hair, I mean the all-around oddness of many characters. Sure, there's not alot of old men with scars across their faces who wear long ponytails while brandishing a 6 foot long katana, but it worked for Auron, right? Now, if he was just some old guy that looked like he should be living somewhere in Florida, do you really think that anyone would've found him as interesting? Visual interest is what helps keeps gamers playing.

It's only bothersome because it appears so frequently. I agree that the other common occurrences are just as annoying, but hair the hair thing seems to be the most common based off of my experiences.

Yeah well, the Japs have always drawn their characters with weird hair, I have no idea why. They also have an (admitted by many) obsession with the Aryan look; blond hair and blue eyes, with I'm sure you have noticed, are traits that're shared by many FF characters/anime/what have you.

Yeah, I could see how a game as you described could be boring. I mean, personally, it'd be a breathe of fresh air to me, but I understand what you mean. However, it's not exactly what I was trying to convey; having unnecessarily large equipment and all that jazz is fine as long as you mix it up a bit: instead of having the typical massive blade that, for some reason, is easily wielded by a skinny, teenage boy, why not try something different and, I don't know, have a shield that also acts as a sword? Have a sword that's designed to be held at the opposite end? Anything that's different, as long as it doesn't get out of hand just for the sake of being unique.

Like I said, the little visual tricks/touches that artists put on their characters are pretty stale, but hey, people like what they know, and sadly, that translates into entertainment as well. Ever wonder why the same formulatic sitcoms are always such a big hit for the first year or so? Because it's the same thing that the other show before them did but with different characters. People realize this; hate it, dump it, and start over with essentialy the same thing. In other words; people like routine in their entertainment, it's safe, they know what to do and what to expect, they just want it in a colorful, ever-changing shell.Or something. Kinda got lost there. =/

Also, now that I've remembered: I'm really sick of females in games. No, I don't mean their presence; I mean the roles they commonly play and the personalities they commonly have - they're pitifully insulting. The female main characters seem to be restricted to only two types: seemingly helpless, attractive tag-a-long or ambitiously outgoing, attractive tag-a-long that, for some reason or another, treats all males as sexist pigs; ironic, considering "sexist" is usually the vibe I get from these games. As for the other females, they're usually just princesses, maids, or common townsfolk (the only type that don't really bother me). Is it too hard to be a little realistic and make a few females unattractive? How about having a female character in the grey instead of being black or white? Man, I wish I'm able to design games someday so I can create something that annoys me the least and observe the reaction it gets.

I wouldn't go as far as to say "sexist", I mean really, in real life, knights weren't female, neither were warriors in many cultures, and so forth. Tying into what I said above, having a female lead character isn't formulatic, so people are skeptical to take a chance at potentially sinking millions into a game that tanked solely because people couldn't get into the character.Let's be realistic; the vast majority of gamers are young males, right? Well, if you're a 20-30 something male who's designing a game that's intended for 15-24 year old males, then are you really going to have a "strong, independent woman, hear me roar" type as the lead character? Nope. Hell, the only reason why Tomb Raider was such a hit was because of Lara's ta-tas. That's just how it goes; sex sells, ecspecially to young males, which as I said, are the target demographic in the gaming industry.As far as you wanting to design games goes, there's really nothing stopping you from doing that. Nothing fancy at first (unless you know all the different types of programming required to build a solid core), but seriously, make like, a short game with your ideal characters, or even draw them out to see what you think, and others if you post it

[Ragamuffin]

I'm not really interested in subduing creativity by morphing all characters into bland, real-life renditions of actual human beings; I just want designers to stop focusing on tried-and-true characteristics and traits. Yes, I fully realize that they're potentially risking millions in doing so, but like I said, larger companies can afford to take such risks, and gaming should not be about continually making large profits - enough to support the company is fine. There's no need to get greedy.

Making enough money just to get by? Not in a capitalist's world. As nice as that sounds, that'll never happen. ;/

I know it's difficult to pull off, but personally, I would much rather take these risks than continue to spew clones of other games with slight variation thrown in.

Which is why 85% of companies (of all types) fail within the first year. Everything needs a selling point, a gimmick if you will. Nobody wants bland, yet nobody wants something that's completly unfamiliar either. Finding a balance is quite tricky, and takes time, which companies do not have. If you keep your customer base waiting for too long, then they'll stray. Likewise, your "cutting edge" newfangled idea might take so long to pull off that what would've been ingenius in 2006 is now annoying and cumbersome in 2008.

By sexist, I was referring to the little attention that female characters seem to get compared to males. Sure, a female knight would indeed be unrealistic in most cases, but does practically every girl have to be helpless or overconfident?

Just with physical exaggerations, game/movie designers tend to exaggerate personalities as well. And let's face it, most women (the ones I know, anyway) are one of the two that you described.

Male protagonists tend to be somewhere in the middle - why can't females?

From the game's I've played (most of them anyways), the males are either bullheaded, stupid, or emotionally damaged lost souls. None of those are exactly shining examples of the male persona.

It just seems to me as if females are thrown in to create a more realistic setting. I can't think of very many female characters with interesting, unique personalities; the men seem to have that covered. Sex certainly does sell, but that's no excuse to push creativity aside in an attempt to make a larger profit - not in my eyes. Frankly, it bothers me a lot.

Well as I said, men write most of these games, and as Hollywood has taught us; very few men can write a good part for a woman. The reverse is also true. I mean, you wouldn't want Spike Lee directing a movie about the KKK now would you?

I have experimented with game designing programs in the past, but the sheer amount of effort involved was overwhelming; you really do need a team when attempting such a project, and while I was able to get a few friends together on multiple occasions, it usually didn't last very long, unfortunately.

Aye, 'tis a hard task to complete.You could just make one of those flash player games or something, or use a simple hacking tool to remake an existing SNES game into something of your liking, and add to it as you get more know-how and ideas. Also, draw it too, it helps alot. ;o

[Ragamuffin]

Not exactly just to get by; I'm fine with a little excess, but again, there's no need to get overly greedy with it.

Yes, but those profits are largely sunk into developing new technologies for graphics, motion, and the computers/machinery to produce more cutting-edge projects. It's not like Mr. CEO rakes in a cool 40 mil. net profit and tap dances home with it. Even if that were the case (and it sometimes is), so? Those people have done something that many people don't mind paying for. They are, in a sense, providing a service. If some random sports player can pull in 10mil and an actor can do 20mil per movie, then what's wrong with gaming companies making a large profit off of something that's much harder to do than say, punt a football?The average game programmer (with a few years exp. under his/her belt) makes about 70,000 USD per year btw, so they're comfortable, but far from rich.

I'm perfectly comfortable having somewhat of a gimmick during the buildup to a profitable company, but once I reach a certain height, I'm more than likely to get a little experimental. However, there are newly formed companies out there that have tried something completely original and surprised everyone with its success. As rare as they may be, I think this is what companies should be striving for. It's not an easy task by any stretch of the imagination, but one must take chances.

I couldn't agree more, but from a business standpoint it's not very wise to be too progressive too quickly. It's hard to go into the specifics of the "whys", predicting the consumer base's reaction is like predicting the stock market; it can go either way at any tme solely based on what people are interested in. I mean, oranges might be in high demand this week, but what about the next? Just as a new gimmick may prove fun at first, but then wears thing quickly (think the DS' touch screen; great idea, executed poorly).Besides, companies like to milk an idea dry before they move onto something else. Maybe that's what you're getting at with the greed thing, but, no one's forcing anyone to buy stale ideas, they're doing it of their own free will.

A lot of the women I know are fairly annoying, sure, but so are the guys. I don't see why either should get any sort of special treatment. I actually wouldn't consider the women I know to be helpless, but yeah, some are overconfident, as are the guys (mostly the guys).

Well, as I said with how some games portray males as egotistical, bullheaded, etc, it's fair game. Personalities and appearances are exaggerated, even voices are. I mean, when's the last time you ran into a "bad guy" who was 7 feet tall, had a scar running down his face and a booming makes-Barry-White-sound-falsetto voice? Its part of the fun and fantasy of the experience, no one wants a game where the women are chatty and average looking, just as no one wants a game where the male hero is a limp-wristed insurance salesman with the dull pushover personality of an aspirin bottle.

I'm talking about the male protagonists, though, unless you also are. From what I've played, the bullheaded, macho, stupid types are usually reserved for a party member. They can be emotionally damaged from time to time, though, sure.

I was talking about both. Look at the FF series; the male protagonists are usually emotional train wrecks with abandonment issues, then there's the overly tough guy as a sidekick party member, followed by the quiet, yet strong female voice, the spunky confident anatomicaly-a-little-too-correct loudmouth female to balance out the quiet one and shows obvious affection towards the protagonist, who the quiet, reserved female secretly likes also and so on. It's all a formula, to change one thing, you'd have to change many. Sure, it can be done but most people only know what they've been taught and have gotten comfortable with, they don't "think outside the box", so to speak.

The answer: more female video game designers. It's not like I can snap my fingers and make it happen; just wishful thinking. There needs to be a good balance of who's working on what.

Thing is, most females aren't interested in sitting in front of a computer for 14 hours a day. Sexual bias has nothing to do with it, it's just how it is. You don't see alot of (straight) guys who work as fashion designers, do you? Because it doesn't interest them.

I draw stuff out occasionally. I tend to enjoy doing that more than working with a flash player and whatnot. Only problem is: I'm really not good with art at all. I like to think I have commitment and determination to what I'm doing, but when you lack artistic skills, it hardly makes a difference. Also, I'm quite the lazy individual, so you can imagine how hard it can be sometimes.

Well, "good" art is an extremely relative term. Something could be perfectly drawn, shaded, yadda yadda, but still be crappy because it's unoriginal, uninspired, etc. Look at the Simpsons, when they first came out the cartoon looked like it was drawn by a four year old, but people still liked tem because they were original and had a style to them that, at the time, other shows didn't.Not the best example, but I'm sure you see what I'm getting at here.As for being lazy. well, I'm kinda lazy sometimes myself, so I just force myself to do something I have to do until I like it. =/