590 replies to this topic

[Ragamuffin]

I'm in strict opposition of the government as well, but I realize often times you need to work within the system in order to change it.

True, but giving them more money isn't going to change anything, look what they did to tobacco and alcohol.

I haven't been to any dispensaries but I have been lucky enough to sample a few choice buds from a dispensary in california and I must say they were quite tasty, those sick people are smoking better than me half the time

Just go to San Francisco and get a club card (if you ever happen to be in the area), the SF cards are valid in every weed-friendly state, since SF started the whole thing. I had one from Oregon but apparently they don't work state to state. And if you really want one, there's plenty of doctors who'll give it to you for just about anything really. I could go say I have PTSD or something from the Army and boom, I'd get another card. Just say you have no appitite/chronic headaches/whatever, slip the good doc a benny if you have to, because it'll more than pay for itself once people want you to make pot runs for them...though that is a felony in SF and many other places with pot clubs (NOT a misdemeanor)....and I'd NEVER condone that kind of behavior....

There's on interesting documentary on this subject if anyone's interested. It's called "Hooked : Illegal drugs and how they got that way" It was produced by the history channel back in oh 2000 I think but anyway look it up on youtube I know it's there I'm just not sure if I'm allowed to post it. Anyway, it explains the legal history of drugs. There's an episode for cannabis, one for cocaine, one for opium and opiates, and the last covers lsd and ecstacy. It's really quite interesting.

Ah, I forgot about those, thank you. And yes, you can post youtube vids on here btw.

I understand what you're saying about decriminalization, and you make a good point, but I'm in support of legalization of all drugs. Federal drug regulation is unconstituational, so it's just wrong to begin with. The consituation reserves the power to regulate substances to states only. The very existance of an orginization like the DEA is unconstitutional as well.

Very good point as well, I'd be completly for it if it wasn't going to be taxed, or if you could just grow/manufacture it yourself or through some sort of non-goverment affiliated agency. I don't think that society will crumble if all drugs are legalized; the people who want to use them will do so no matter what the laws say. Just look at Holland, drugs and prostitution are legal there, and they're one of the highest-functioning countries on the planet.

[Ragamuffin]

The manufacture is easy enough, all of the major pharmaceutical companies already have the equipment necessary for bulk synthesis of any drug. Regardless of the drug they're making, it's essentially the same process and if the companies can make money you can bet they'll go for it.

Well my only problem if that (call it paranoia if you will), is that many US medical centers/companies have ties to the government, why do you think getting cheaper Canadian drugs is illegal?I was thinking something more along the lines of private organizations, and some of the profits could go to rehab centers, drug education classes, etc. That way, the state/feds wouldn't have to spend as much (if any) money on rehabs (the publicly funded ones), methadone clinics, and jailing people for drug use. I know that's a rather idealistic concept (which isn't often for me), but I think that, with a little work, it could take off. I mean, I remember back in SF they were talking about building "safe zones" where people could shoot dope, smoke crack, etc., though honestly I wouldn't want to live within a mile of one of those, and I have, and the (non-directly drug related) crime was through the roof. But then again, 99% of that neighborhood was uhh....how do I put this nicely? Oh okay, it was dark there even in the daytime if you know what I mean.I'd have a problem with legalizing Meth, or even decriminalizing it, only because people are destroyed by it very easily and turns most people extremly violent, though the same could be said about Heroin and Cocaine to lesser extents.

[Ragamuffin]

Well, you're right about that, the FDA is basically in the pockets of the drug companies.

I like the way you're thinking here, but the only thing that comes to mind is how hard if not impossible it would be to out muscle the pharmaceutical companies. Most of the major ones have been around for almost 150 years and they have major influence.

Exactly, which was why I was saying that my idea was overly idealistic. It's not like you could force those companies to not have a slice of the recreational drug pie, at the very least. At worst, they could easily outbuy and otherwise financialy (or even politically) strongarm the companies/centers with non-government backing. I guess it'd have to be a by-city or by-state thing, but even that would have its share of kinks.

[Ragamuffin]

legalize it, then TAX the HELL out of it and make sure kids cant make the same mistake i did

1. Taxing weed wouldn't make a difference, if it was made legal and sold in stores, you'd very likely have to be over 18/21 to purchase it anyways. Besides, the taxes on cigarettes is extraordinarily high (where I live, it's 7 USD a pack), and that doesn't stop too many people, though Nicotine is highly addictive while weed isn't.2. First, what mistake was that? Using in the first place? Did you get stoned and do something that you otherwise wouldn't have done that lead to a problem? Just because you may or may not have made "mistakes", severe or not, while under the influence of weed, doesn't mean that others would follow. Most smokers know that there's a time and place to party.

POINTS were deducted for this post by -Mario-Please refer to the forum rules to find out why your points were deducted.

That's what happens when you don't elaborate.

[Ragamuffin]

I laugh at your claim of "expensive cigarettes". It's around 11 USD a pack for 20 cigarettes over here.

It's 10 USD in New York City, and in Southern states, it's usually not more than 2 or 3 USD because the taxes there are minimal (plus the tobacco is grown there).Just curious, is it that expensive in Norway just because of taxes, or otherwise? I'm suprised to hear they're so expensive over there, but then again, I never looked either.EDIT: Come January. taxes on cigs/alcohol will likely be going up yet again over here. ;/

Oh, and haven't we already established that weed is around as addictive as chocolate scented candles? Why are people still arguing that it's addictive?

Because most people like to lump drugs into one big, vaugely-defined group and go off of what they heard from a friend of a friend rather than research and/or experience, and don't read posts.

[Ragamuffin]

It's expensive mostly because of taxes. But I feel it's fine to have high taxes on death-sticks; both projectile-firing and otherwise. Also; Norway is likely one of the most expensive countries in the world. Plus, you'd probably find the laws a bit bizarre. Rape and violence have more easy-going punishments than for example dealing hashish (which is the most common illegal drug in Norway).

Yeah, Norway is extremly expensive, the cost of living has gone even more through the roof from what I've heard.Yes, I do find that a bit odd; rape being taken more lightly (based on what you said) than hashish dealing? I wonder why that is.

That's because DRUGS ARE BAD. They really are. Some are worse than others, though - like ethanol and nicotine! Wait, wait. Those are legal. Nevermind. They're not called drugs anymore if they're legal; I keep forgetting..

A girl in my class once had a heated argument with me because she claimed her friend "OD-ed" on LSD. Not just a bad trip. OD-ed. The only known case of that was when some moron drank half a bottle of solution. This is how clever people are. I don't know why mods let them get away with reiterating dozens of silly arguments over and over again (and leave the goddamned messages for us to be annoyed about, though I can somewhat understand that).

If you OD on LSD, you're brain-dead and don't come out of it. I knew a guy who did something similar to what you described and he's been stuck in the same thought for...going on 9 years, I believe, and from what I heard through the grapevine, he's wasn't classified as an OD victim, just a bad trip that he may be permanently stuck in for the rest of his life, though he may just randomly snap out of it, which is rare, but has happened to others. Until then, he's stuck in a looney bin somewhere.

I feel every drug that doesn't cause senseless aggression should be legalized; educated about, and sold in strictly controlled government buildings (note: the Norwegian government is different from yours in that it isn't comprised of a bunch of incredibly wealthy politicians. Just slightly over the normal Norwegian wages, really.

1. I feel the same way, which is why I wouldn't want to see Meth legalized in any form.2. You're lucky to have a government like that, one that wouldn't corrupt something that could potentially educate and help people.

What use is it to criminalize something that doesn't really do any harm? Like you said; it costs a lot of money to send someone to prison; and what will they learn from that experience? New ways of committing crimes; likely heavier crimes than the ones they came in because of.

Not only that, but there's no "rehabilitation" in American prisons, so really, sending someone to prison likely isn't going to change them, they have to make a consious effort to want to change (though being locked up does give one alot of time to think), but by and large, prison sentences (here at least) are seen as a badge of honor of sorts, and thus other criminals hear about you and maybe offers you a little job...and boom, eventually it all goes back to square one. Been there, done that, doesn't work.

[Ragamuffin]

I dont understand why people think lsd is somehow different than other drugs. Lsd has a half life(~3 hours) and is eventually excreted like any other drug. No matter how much lsd you take you will eventually pass it all from your body. And believe me it wont take 9 years :\ There have been no known cases of an lsd overdose in a human.Bottom line, tripping on lsd from a single dose for more than around 14 hours is impossible. It's simple pharmacodynamics.

True to an extent, but the after-effects (like it basically scrambling your brain if you've taken enough) don't just go away after a few hours have passed. I forget the specifics, but it can throw your brain into a sort of "loop", though it doesn't happen often; usually the person will just have an extremly bad trip, and yes you'd have to consume ALOT of LSD for someone to actually die from it.And not all parts of LSD leave the body, I'm sure you know that remnants of it can stay in your spinal fluid for a very long time, and you get get flashbacks of sorts if you've taken enough over a long period of time.Oh, about the cannabis being addictive thing, like I said somewhere ITT (pretty sure I did anyway), according to popular (educated) belief and some research, roughly %10 of people can become addicted to marijuana in the physical sense (though honestly I find that hard to believe). I believe that people can get addicted (mentally) to the euphoria it brings, and life just seems a little more boring without it, which was how I was when I smoked alot and I pretty much was bored to death no matter what I was doing when I wasn't smoking, though the feeling only lasted a day or two for me. Bah, tomato, tomatoe.

[Ragamuffin]

Yes but this afterglow isn't from the actual drug but more from what you discovered while taking the drug. I've done lsd more than a dozen times and it's a truly wonderful experience. I feel blissful and euphoric for days afterwards but the lsd is long gone.

Odd, when I used to do acid I felt like crap the day afterwards

I've had these "though loops" as well and yes they can be quite hard to work through. They're not specific to lsd either. I use many psychedelic drugs and almost all of them can give you varying degrees of thought loops with a high enough dose.

I know it's not LSD specific, the same goes with shrooms and to a much smaller extent DMT. A say smallere xtent because even though DMT is much more potent, it doesn't last as long, though some say the after-effects can alter your personality a bit (at least for awhile), but personally I don't believe that last part.

Also just because someone's done a high dose of lsd or any psychedelic dosen't necessarily mean they'll have a bad trip.

Everyone whom I've ever met who does or used to drop acid/shrooms/etc would tell you different. Any trip can turn bad for any number of reasons.

This is just an urban myth. http://www.erowid.or...lsd_myth1.shtml

I never said it stayed in your system forever, just quite a long time. I honestly believe it stays in your spinal fluid, when I've cracked my back every so often I'll start to feel all loopy for a few seconds, which didn't start happening until I dropped acid a few times. Then again, I probably shouldn't have stated what I said as fact because I don't know for sure, I'm going on my personal experience and what I've read, though I've also read reports that say otherwise.I thought about actually seeing if there's a way for a doctor to check my spinal fluid, but not only is that quite painful (from what I've heard), but it's expensive.

[Ragamuffin]

DMT? More potent? No sir, lsd is the most motent psychedelic, with oral activity under 50μg(micrograms). A DMT dose can be 2mg(milligrams), although is a very small dose it shows some activity. I was fortunate enough to smoke fully synthetic DMT on 3 occasions and I smoked 50mg, 60mg, and 80mg.

There's the problem, the real thing is muuuuch better, but doesn't last long. Isn't synthetic DMT like 2CI somewhat? Oh, and Salvia is also quite strong (the 40 and 80x at least), too bad it only lasts like, 10 minutes.

Which part dont you believe though? You're confusing me, I think you mixed up your post and my quote...

Yes I did (fixed now) The part I didn't believe was saying that DMT could alter your personality, which some people believe is true.

Bad trips happen, of course they do, but I dont know if they're necessarily bound to happen.

One could argue that you have to be in a proper setting and frame of mind to avoid a bad trip, personally I've really hadn't had a problem with 'em, though mst people seem to at times.Then again, I haven't done LSD in about 3 years.EDIT: This touchpad is pissing me off, I hate these *gets mouse*

DMT requires that you take another drug simultaneously to experience the full effect, from what I remember. Also; DMT is, if I'm not mistaken, a drug that can initiate lucid-dreaming. LSD is an hallucinogen; whereas DMT has various other characteristics.

DMT can be described as an out-of-body experience, but has never happened to me. Then again I never took it with anything else (well, other things have been in my system, but from hours before)

In any case I feel as though we are moving away from the topic at hand. Legalization of marijuana. What arguments do we have for and against at the moment=

Well, since we're pretty much the only three ITT, and we all basically agree, is there any more to talk about for the time being?