590 replies to this topic

[Kiba]

From a health stand point, marijuana is just as bad for you as cigarettes. Any time you are breathing in smoke you are taking in carcinogens. Smoking marijuana can also cause emphysema and most of the other health problems associated with cigarettes. The exception to this is that it can reduce ocular pressure thus help with glaucoma. The exception to the cancer and emphysema is if you vaporize it but most people smoke it.

[Kiba]

thats the thing though, if its just as bad as cigarettes, than marijuana should most definitely be legal. there are over the shelf products that can be just as bad in big doses...anyway im almost positive its the bankers that just want to keep their money lol. politicians would sell their soul for a dollar.

So because one thing that is bad for you is legal everything else should be? That is a pretty poor excuse to legalize it. As for "bankers" not wanting to legalize it, they would make a lot of money off of it. The money that business would take in from the sales of marijuana would have to be stored somewhere.Instead of the claims that you made, you should have argued that there would be quality control.

[Kiba]

You do realize that if it was legalized it would be just as hard for you to get as cigarettes right? They would place age restrictions on when you can smoke it.

[Kiba]

Ive had a love affair with weed for the past 5 years, but i really dont think it should be legalized. Legalization comes with a whole host of problems, and drug trafficking related deaths would increase 10 fold (theres a gigantic drug war going on in central america because of american drug use).

You really have no idea what you are talking about do you?If it was legalized we wouldn't import it from South America. We would be able to grow it domestically like we do most of our tobacco. How would drug trafficking deaths go up if it was legal? Why would a company risk loosing their license and buy marijuana from an illegal source?

[Ragamuffin]

The drug itself is not 'bad' but being illegal people who are hooked on it usually end up on harder drugs, maybe they would get help to stop if it was legal? Weed can also be used as a legal drug now, as it can help people with many things from depression to insomnia!y.

First, Marijuana has an extremely low physical addiction rate, so where you got this "hooked on it" idea from is beyond me.Also, "usually end up on harder drugs"? Got any statistics on that? Of course not. The gateway drug theory is nothing more than a scare tactic. Correlation does not imply causation. In other words, just because someone smokes pot and eventually moves on to heroin, doesn't mean that smoking pot caused the person to do heroin.PS: Using weed as a self-medication for Depression seems like a good idea in the short-term, but in the long-term a person with a history of Depression runs a high risk of it becoming worse and/or developing Schizophrenia. Of course, the studies on this are generally inconclusive and only focuses on heavy long-term use.

[Ragamuffin]

Right drugs are a subject I know way too much about, what isn't known to me about drugs really isn't worth knowning - My reason is not because I use all the drugs I can get my hands on but because I am training to be a drugs councellor.

You can't truly know about drugs by reading from a book, though. Some drug counselors are under the impression that they know the pain of, say, heroin withdrawal simply because they read a textbook listing common symptoms.Protip: When discussing a subject, don't state how much you supposedly know about it, demonstrate it.

Firstly the low physical addiction rate really is a load of lies, cannabis is something i've done plenty of in my time (I even have the tattoo) and so has my partner. My partner has smoked it since he was around 13 or 14 and at the age of 28 he finally got off it. He needed it to fuction through the day the same way as a heroin addict needed a fix and an alcoholic needed a drink, he ended up rattling if he didn't have it and for anyone who has ever suffered withdrawal or seen it, it ain't pretty. It wasn't as bad as a heroin or crack withdrawal but still all the physical signs were there and some of these you can't put on.

Funny, I've never seen or heard that ever, and you cite zero data to support your claim. Yeah, there's a psychological element to addiction, but that can apply to anything from video games to food. Does the fact that people get addicted to those things make them inherently addictive? No it does not. There's only so much blame you can throw around before you have to lay some at your own doorstep, you know?

Secondly the usually end up on harder drugs bit is in around 70% of cases true.

Don't make up statistics. Show hard data or GTFO.

Eventually after smoking it for so long you begin to feel that the high isn't good enough no matter what you do and how much you smoke and from them it's a very slippery road to rock bottom, again ask my partner.

You can't base the effects of something based on the experiences of one person. In this case, your "partner".

He's now on opiate replacement therepy to combat a heroin addiction which caused the breakdown of my marriage 14 months ago.It was a further 2 months before everything came out when he walked out on his job and we were doing battle in the court room for our kids. 3 months later he'd hit rock bottom and begged me to help. He's been on this treatment for 8 months and has vowed never to do anything again, it's been a struggle but he's getting there and we're back on track. If you want to take a look around the old mining village I live in you'll find that around 30% of the people that are between 18 and 35 are heroin addicts and out of the ones seen at the clinic each week the vast majority started out on cannabis.

Did you read the post where I said "correlation does not imply causation"? I could argue that since coffee drinkers tend to smoke more cigarettes, that coffee causes people to smoke. Of course that isn't true, but the correlation is there.And please, stop using "ask my partner" and "look around my old mining village". Try using facts instead.But hey, since you want to use personal experience as an argument; I know a lot of people that use/used heroin who've never touched a joint and vice versa. Does that mean anything? Nope. Saying that one drug will inevitably lead to another is a cop out, it's the choice of the user.

What i'd like to ask you though is are you one of those people who thinks the only way to do heroin is to inject because it's not, it can be smoked - it's called chasing the dragon.

It can also be cooked and snorted, but injection is the most efficient method. Also, where do you get such a question from? What, did you think that citing a very well known fact would somehow make you seem like an expert?

Cannabis is out in a tablet form, only available on prescription to certain people - this is a group of very few people but this isn't available all over the world, just a select few places. I shall try to get the info and edit this to put it in. Legalization is certainly one way to go and have it only available from certain places and it'd come with health warnings like the stupid things on cigarette packets and the drink responsibly rubbish on the bottles and cans of alcohol. It'd also be something else that the government could get revenue from, bet they've not thought of that bit yet. The only downside may be that it'll still be "smuggled" into countries like people trying to smuggle too many fags because the best stuff isn't from where they are. It has it's pro's and con's but if they legalize it will that pave the way for other drugs to be legalized? If you can control the purity and the strength of drugs then it does actually put a good case up.

The way I see it, Alcohol and Nicotine have caused far more deaths than THC, that alone is reason enough to either decriminalize Marijuana or make Alcohol and Nicotine illegal (which won't happen). In the US, it was made illegal as an excuse to kick Mexicans out during the great depression. If you're interested, there's a documentary from the History Channel called Illegal Drugs and how they got that way - Marijuana, which describes the archaic reasoning of the ban. It may not be relevant to you since you're in the UK(?), but it's still interesting.

[natecola]

Economically speaking, the legalization of marijauna can be extremely helpful in creating a new industry. Think of all the new jobs that will be made available; growers, packaging, retail, delivery, lobbyists, I mean, this one industry can create countless jobs. Also, what would likely happen would be that people who sell weed would need a permit to do so, which means less shady dealers and more clean weed in clean dispensary stores. People always complain that marijauna legalization will make it seem more "okay" to smoke weed, which to them is a problem. The reality is that the same people smoking now will be the same people smoking when it's legalized (it's not like it's hard to smoke weed illegally). Maybe a few people will feel the desire to "try it" when it's legal, but it's not like they're getting "hooked for life" or whatever the people who oppose it think will happen. They're just gonna see what it's like to smoke weed, now that there's no fear of getting caught, either like the experience or not, and probably never do it again.In my mind, there's nothing but positive outcomes. I don't understand why people have fear about this.

[skulhedface]

I'd like to point out that if we're allowed to use personal experience as a catch-all, then marijuana is NOT addictive. There was a period of time I smoked it every day for a year (no peer pressure or anything, it just felt relaxing, not unlike having a glass of highly illegal wine at dinner) and quit, you may say "cold turkey". No withdrawals, no "OHMANINEEDAJOINTSOBADGOTTAJOINTOHMANOHMAN" period, just simply, "I don't want to smoke weed anymore" and did. No unpleasant side effects, nothing. The argument could be made that I didn't do it enough, but this was a one joint a day habit-- doesn't that invalidate an argument about using it, period? This constitutes a habit, but it was incredibly easy to break. This doesn't suggest the 'life ruining' scare tactic heavily employed by most drug counselors (and don't get me started on picking and choosing... it's dead wrong to use drugs like marijuana, they're bad... unless you need ritalin! Or viagra! Or Adderall!) Oh, and I never touched anything harder, either. No heroin, no cocaine, nada. I don't know about your partner, but as for me, I'm sorry, your one person versus my one person is completely contradictory. This is why data is collected in groups, not in an individual basis (unless you do it case by case, but do you really want to get every single person high to test this?)I've heard the rumors that marijuana was illegalized because of mexicans, but I've also heard that in itself was a rumor started by (I think) William Randolph Hearst, who had plenty of reason (profit being the main one) to see it criminalized. Suffice it to say, there's no right or easily accepted answer about it, we could both be equally right or wrong on that matter. Just food for thought. I do want to see that documentary :(AND, to get to the point, I think it shouldn't be illegal, but I think it should be controlled. Not necessarily prescription only, but like anything you buy containing ephedrine or pseudoephedrine (sp?), where only in certain amounts. Not because I think marijuana is illegal, but alcohol (which is completely legal) has shown us what happens when people who can't control themselves buy too much of it, consume it irresponsibly, and, say, get behind the wheel of a car. We've already made that mistake with alcohol and rectified it as best we can (by cutting off drinkers who appear heavily intoxicated, for example), let's nip that in the bud with marijuana, but at the same time, make a product that is completely harmless when consumed responsibly available for those that wish to consume it.And one last thing, unrelated but relevant-- scare tactics obviously do not work when educating about drugs. We're all scared of them, but would anyone disagree that drugs are epidemic? Scaring people must not be stopping them from using them, otherwise "epidemic" would be laughably wrong. Maybe an honest education about it wouldn't be much more effective, but at least you're not BS'ing anymore. One would wonder what the corollation is between people finding out these scare tactics are wrong suddenly thinking "Hey, this drug didn't (scare tactic here), what else could I get away with?" and continuing to do so? If you lie to the people, they find it a lot harder to believe your next set of scare tactics. Try the truth.

Edited by skulhedface, 07 December 2010 - 05:39 PM.

[Ragamuffin]

I've heard the rumors that marijuana was illegalized because of mexicans, but I've also heard that in itself was a rumor started by (I think) William Randolph Hearst, who had plenty of reason (profit being the main one) to see it criminalized. Suffice it to say, there's no right or easily accepted answer about it, we could both be equally right or wrong on that matter. Just food for thought. I do want to see that documentary

IIRC, that's also mentioned in the documentary, I haven't watched it in awhile though. Here's a torrent of 4 documentaries covering the more popular drugs. If you're not into the torrent thing and happen to have cable, they might be on On Demand.I've also heard that it was outlawed because the lumber and cotton industries didn't want any competition from the hemp industry, since the those industries were as tied to the government back then as oil is now. But nothing I've read or seen really does more than speculate.And yeah, I think it should be controlled as well, similar to alcohol. I'm all for smoking pot (even though I've lost my interest in it for the time being), but I definitely see a downside to letting anyone smoke it anywhere.

[Ragamuffin]

It should most definitely be legalized! I don't use it, but I support the legalization of it. We already see so much illegal use of it, and people are constantly getting arrested and detained for growing, selling, or using it. If it was legalized, it would be easier to control and the government could put taxes on it. Perhaps it would even help us get through the great budget deficits we face each year.

With the rate the US debt is growing (and will continue to grow until economic collapse, which is already happening in major cities), not a chance. Every dollar we spend is a dollar and a few more pennies we owe the federal reserve. Our dollar is literally worth half of what it was just a few years ago.Also, there's the little matter of our relationship with Israel, but I'll stop myself there.