Scientist is believe that there are evolution occuring I think that evolution is occuring too. Because the fossils I saw has identify as the ancester of whales look very same. Fossils are very interesting and it shows of how many evolutions have animals have occure.
Who the hell would believe in evolution???
Started by
Guest_MichahSimmons
, Jan 09 2006 08:34 PM
1136 replies to this topic
#227
Guest_Pirate1019
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Posted 28 February 2007 - 05:38 AM
In response to: (Each point is brought up separately.)"u noe pirate..... we're all "guided" by someone, or something."Only if you lack the balls to stand up for yourself. I'm not so spineless as to need to listen to a preacher tell me how to live my life. Same applys to other situations." that can also mean they wanted you to not believe in a religion and be pressured into it as well."You want the real story? Don't assume everybody has some deeper meaning to all of their actions. My Mom never went to church because she grew up on a ranch where it wasn't easy to go worship an imaginary friend on Sundays. My dad did go to church, but he is half an alcoholic and is too lazy to try to press anything on me." if you're going to say having a religion is "stupid" n all that, then y not say the society you follow is stupid and fcked up?"I don't 'follow' society. If I did then I would be an MTV watching zombie, a women oogling freak, I would vote, go to church, and participate in other things peopple in society typically do. And as a note: I do say that society is full of problems. Even if I didn't, you can assume I think so by reading my posts." u cant, because the society u believed in made u who u are right now."I just did. You are right about something though. Society did shape me. I am like a byproduct of a nuclear power plant. They got everything wrong with me. I'm not their perfect little clone." to you it's a good society to be in, but maybe to others it's a piece of shyt."Other way around." we're all guided, and we all follow someone, or something."Unless you count following yourself, then you're wrong" many follow religions to choose their fate, and make their choices;"You mean to have their fate's chosen for them and the responsibilities of choosing between right and wrong somebody else's." some chooses to follow the society they live in and believe in all the media crap given to them."Correction: ALL chooses to follow the society they live in and believe in all the media crap given to them." i can already tell you're not one of those rare few just by the way you talk. a person who can make his/her own destiny does not have to prove anything, or judge anyone, as long as they know they are better than u."You would be right, except for one thing: I'm not trying to prove anything. I'm in it for the thrill of the argument. I'm an argumenative person. It's intellectually stimulating. On the judging people note: You're wrong. God (assuming he exists) judges people all the time. What do you think the Heaven/Hell thing is for?*Sigh* Ok, that's done. Try to type better, it was hard to decipher that.u noe pirate..... we're all "guided" by someone, or something. u being a realist doesnt just come instantly. your parents wanted you to choose the paths you want, so they didnt pressure u into believing into a religion. that can also mean they wanted you to not believe in a religion and be pressured into it as well. if you're going to say having a religion is "stupid" n all that, then y not say the society you follow is stupid and fcked up? u cant, because the society u believed in made u who u are right now. to you it's a good society to be in, but maybe to others it's a piece of shyt. we're all guided, and we all follow someone, or something. many follow religions to choose their fate, and make their choices; some chooses to follow the society they live in and believe in all the media crap given to them. only a rare few can say they truely make their own destiny, and their future. i can already tell you're not one of those rare few just by the way you talk. a person who can make his/her own destiny does not have to prove anything, or judge anyone, as long as they know they are better than u.
It's stupid to believe in something that has absolutely no sensical backing behind it. At least evolution tries to come up with answers and reasons. Religion simply gives all of the credit to something that might or might not even be real. Easy to claim your right when nobody can disprove you and you have an answer to everything.Note: I never once said I was an atheist. Not once. Use the search function on the page with all of my posts. Search the word 'atheist'. You are the first person to use that word on page 15 of this topic.Agnostic. I shoose not to believe due to insufficient proof that what I would be following is real.Word: agnostic Part of Speech: noun Definition: an agnostic is one who believes that it is impossible to know whether there is a God; an atheist is one who disbelieves or denies the existence of God or godsThere isn't irrefutable proof for anything. Not believing or something because it can't be proven is an absolutely idiotic way of living. For instance, it can't be irrefutably proven that any of your friends actually like you, but is it ridiculous to acknowledge them as your friends? I think anyone who identifies himself as an atheist, across the board, is an absolute idiot. If one is intelligent to acknowledge the fact that he cannot prove God, he should should be intelligent enough to realize he can't disprove God either. Believing in God is just as ridiculous as believing there is no God, the only sensible course of action is admiting you don't have the slightest idea.
#228
Guest_amateursuperhero
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Posted 28 February 2007 - 06:31 AM
It has perfectly "sensical" (not a word) behind it. There are limits to evolution. Evolution brings biology to a point of explanation, but there are still unlimited answered questions. One answer to these questions is that there is entire other schools of science that we simply haven't discovered yet that can explain everything, and another answer is "God." Both of these answers are perfectly rational, reasonable answers. Calling either one a stupid way of thinking is just making an donkey out of yourself, as you are beginning to right now. Just because an answer is easy does not mean it's wrong, have you ever heard of Occam's razor?It's stupid to believe in something that has absolutely no sensical backing behind it. At least evolution tries to come up with answers and reasons. Religion simply gives all of the credit to something that might or might not even be real. Easy to claim your right when nobody can disprove you and you have an answer to everything.
I never said you said you were an atheist. I was implying that what you said was atheism, which it is. here's a real definition of agnostic: 1 : a person who holds the view that any ultimate reality (as God) is unknown and probably unknowable; broadly : one who is not committed to believing in either the existence or the nonexistence of God or a godNotice the phrase "not committed," which implies neutrality. Calling something stupid is by no means a neutral statement. You are at best a bad agnostic, and at worst an atheist.Note: I never once said I was an atheist. Not once. Use the search function on the page with all of my posts. Search the word 'atheist'. You are the first person to use that word on page 15 of this topic.Agnostic. I shoose not to believe due to insufficient proof that what I would be following is real.Word: agnostic Part of Speech: noun Definition: an agnostic is one who believes that it is impossible to know whether there is a God; an atheist is one who disbelieves or denies the existence of God or gods
#229
Guest_whoesdeen
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Posted 28 February 2007 - 07:04 AM
IM THE ONE WHO BELIVES IN evolution
#230
Guest_L_il_col
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Posted 28 February 2007 - 07:08 AM
But evolution is true!!! Because its the best explanastion that we've got to explain the appearance of thousands of species who can survive within their home eniviroment.
#231
Ragamuffin
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Posted 28 February 2007 - 07:11 AM
Just because it's the best explaination doesn't make it true. But in this case, I also believe in evolution.But evolution is true!!! Because its the best explanastion that we've got to explain the appearance of thousands of species who can survive within their home eniviroment.
A state of war only serves as an excuse for domestic tyranny. -Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn
#232
Guest_Pirate1019
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Posted 28 February 2007 - 07:15 AM
Normalcy isn't a word either, but Warren Harding used it anyway.It has perfectly "sensical" (not a word) behind it. There are limits to evolution. Evolution brings biology to a point of explanation, but there are still unlimited answered questions. One answer to these questions is that there is entire other schools of science that we simply haven't discovered yet that can explain everything, and another answer is "God." Both of these answers are perfectly rational, reasonable answers. Calling either one a stupid way of thinking is just making an donkey out of yourself, as you are beginning to right now. Just because an answer is easy does not mean it's wrong, have you ever heard of Occam's razor?I never said you said you were an atheist. I was implying that what you said was atheism, which it is. here's a real definition of agnostic: 1 : a person who holds the view that any ultimate reality (as God) is unknown and probably unknowable; broadly : one who is not committed to believing in either the existence or the nonexistence of God or a godNotice the phrase "not committed," which implies neutrality. Calling something stupid is by no means a neutral statement. You are at best a bad agnostic, and at worst an atheist.
There are limits to everything. If there aren't limits, then it's probably too good to be true. Evolution (at this point, I'm really talking about not supporting creationism more then supporting evolution, but for the sake of keeping things reletively simple) provides answers. Not all of them, yes, but it still uses logic to explain more then creationism does. Creationism claims that everything was made by a deity of some sort, "God" if you will. So, God created everything. Why did he create everything? How did he come to be? How did he create the universe? Why Did he make the Universe the way he did?Making a Donkey out of myself? I understand what is substituted for 'donkey' but I don't follow your logic. I decide to talk about how I question the existence of a higher being and the theories that come from it and suddenly I look stupid?Occam's Razor:entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem,Translates:entities should not be multiplied beyond necessity.Note bold text. Claiming that a deity created everything isn't enough."People have different colors of skin because of something inside of them." Does not sound as good or convincing as "People have different colors of skin because of a material in a person's skin called pigment."I will let you have the Atheist/Agnostic point though. I am stuck at a balance between the two, and my negative view of things often makes me think and act like an atheist. I believe that you can't approve/disprove god's existence, but I tend to use atheist logic to express my opinions.
#233
Guest_porkbun313
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Posted 01 March 2007 - 03:37 AM
Evolution is bull****.I aint no munkey
#234
Guest_amateursuperhero
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Posted 01 March 2007 - 04:40 AM
You sure spell like one.Evolution is bull****.I aint no munkey
#235
Guest_Pirate1019
Guest_Pirate1019
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Posted 01 March 2007 - 04:42 AM
Sounds as smart as one too.
#236
Guest_amateursuperhero
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Posted 01 March 2007 - 04:52 AM
Creationism doesn't deny science, that's a misconception. Sort of like the misconception that evolution denies God. Belief in God does use logic. Science does not always equal logic.There are limits to everything. If there aren't limits, then it's probably too good to be true. Evolution (at this point, I'm really talking about not supporting creationism more then supporting evolution, but for the sake of keeping things reletively simple) provides answers. Not all of them, yes, but it still uses logic to explain more then creationism does. Creationism claims that everything was made by a deity of some sort, "God" if you will. So, God created everything. Why did he create everything? How did he come to be? How did he create the universe? Why Did he make the Universe the way he did?
You called the belief in God stupid, that in and of itself makes you look stupid. There's a million arguments for God I'm sure you've never read, dismissing an entire school of philosophical thought as stupid is idiotic.Making a Donkey out of myself? I understand what is substituted for 'donkey' but I don't follow your logic. I decide to talk about how I question the existence of a higher being and the theories that come from it and suddenly I look stupid?
I'm not disputing that objection to Occam's razor, I was simply pointing out that Occam's razor to show you things are not always as complex as we make them. I'm not necessarily saying creationism vs. evolution is one of those things, I'm just saying it's possible.Occam's Razor:entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem,Translates:entities should not be multiplied beyond necessity.Note bold text. Claiming that a deity created everything isn't enough."People have different colors of skin because of something inside of them." Does not sound as good or convincing as "People have different colors of skin because of a material in a person's skin called pigment."
Edited by amateursuperhero, 01 March 2007 - 04:56 AM.
#237
Command vega
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Posted 01 March 2007 - 04:52 AM
Ok thats your choice to believe in. Just like how life is. For some they believe we was just..here, others believe we evolved, and some believe aliens beamed us here and is studying us as we speak and when we are getting to close to reaching the point that their civilization is at we will be destroyed. We don't really know what the real truth is about such thing. We don't know if religion is right, or wrong, we also don't know if the god or gods are real, or even if god is a giant three headed dragon serpent thing that sings camp town ladies, I will survive, and blow me away.We don't really know such things and wont know until we die. Then we will know the truth but cant tell others what it really is since we..well are dead or we just rot in the ground. I really see no point in this topic myself other then pointless and useless arguments. As for what I think. I don't the truth nor do I care because, I will not waste my life on wondering if its true or not.Evolution is bull****.I aint no munkey
#238
Guest_thegrimreaper1
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Posted 01 March 2007 - 04:55 AM
i beleive that evolution is true...after reading darwins book...you shouldnt even have a say in this topic unless you have read it
#239
Guest_Pirate1019
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Posted 01 March 2007 - 05:37 AM
Don't say that. This implies that you cannot post in this thread unless you have also read every piece of religious scripture ever written. Which is not true.i beleive that evolution is true...after reading darwins book...you shouldnt even have a say in this topic unless you have read it
These arguments are most certainly not pointless. Anything that makes you use your mind to think things through has at least some point to it. Debates are included in this.I really see no point in this topic myself other then pointless and useless arguments.
"Belief in God does use logic. Science does not always equal logic."Just like belief in god does not always equal logic.Logic itself is sort of an open word. Logic is only logic to the person interpreting everything. It could be complete nonsense to somebody else. An example for posterity:1. God created man in his imageThe Bible does say this, correct? To some it makes sense and is logical. Even I think it's a logical decision that god would make, even though I do not believe it to be true. Others think it's absolutely idiotic and senseless.2. We evolved from monkeysI'm not sure on what science has done to porve/disprove this theory, but the same rules apply. Many think it's a logical answer while many also think it's ridiculous (like our friend porkbun313). The door wings both ways."You called the belief in God stupid, that in and of itself makes you look stupid. There's a million arguments for God I'm sure you've never read, dismissing an entire school of philosophical thought as stupid is idiotic."I called it rediculous, not stupid. I called people stupid, yes, but not belief in god. I simply find belief in a higher being or supernatural things silly and the opposite of natural thought. As for the million arguments for god, yes, you're right, there are numerous theories and arguments that I've never read. Just like neither you or I have read every document pertaining to evolution or the lack of existence of a god. I'm simply working off of what I know and that caused me to have the opinions I had."I'm not disputing that objection to Occam's razor, I was simply pointing out that Occam's razor to show you things are not always as complex as we make them. I'm not necessarily saying creationism vs. evolution is one of those things, I'm just saying it's possible.Yeah, people have a habit of making things really complex. An example is written laws or documents. The lord's prayer is about 65-70 words depending on the translation. Pretty short. The document stating the legal issues pertaining to the US production/import/export of cabbage is some 26,000 words. Talk about overkill.Still, Genesis pretty much states that god made the world. I want some sort of proof that the feat of creating a world such as god did is in fact, possible. The word of a book written by the deity who created the world isn't exactly the most reliable source of information in this particular situation, methinks.Creationism doesn't deny science, that's a misconception. Sort of like the misconception that evolution denies God. Belief in God does use logic. Science does not always equal logic. You called the belief in God stupid, that in and of itself makes you look stupid. There's a million arguments for God I'm sure you've never read, dismissing an entire school of philosophical thought as stupid is idiotic. I'm not disputing that objection to Occam's razor, I was simply pointing out that Occam's razor to show you things are not always as complex as we make them. I'm not necessarily saying creationism vs. evolution is one of those things, I'm just saying it's possible.
#240
Guest_amateursuperhero
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Posted 01 March 2007 - 05:53 AM
We're pretty much in a agreement then
#241
Guest_NightFalcon
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Posted 01 March 2007 - 06:08 AM
The theory of evolution is still on the "theoretical" side of biology. It's controversial that from an ancient fossil of a creature that we evolved from it. I believe that our direct ancestors are just primates. Primates are an evolution of something else and that something else is an evolution from something else. It's kind of like an "evolutionary" chain.
#242
Guest_Hayasaka
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Posted 01 March 2007 - 06:18 AM
[quote name='Pirate1019' post='2212877' date='Feb 27 2007, 07:38 PM']In response to: (Each point is brought up separately.)"u noe pirate..... we're all "guided" by someone, or something."Only if you lack the balls to stand up for yourself. I'm not so spineless as to need to listen to a preacher tell me how to live my life. Same applys to other situations.im not sure u know wat i meant by we're all being guided by someone, or something. let me ask you a question... how can u choose not to listen to others and survive in today's world?" that can also mean they wanted you to not believe in a religion and be pressured into it as well."You want the real story? Don't assume everybody has some deeper meaning to all of their actions. My Mom never went to church because she grew up on a ranch where it wasn't easy to go worship an imaginary friend on Sundays. My dad did go to church, but he is half an alcoholic and is too lazy to try to press anything on me.sure they didnt care if you go to church or not, but their actions and the situations they were in guided u into thinking that church is pointless. no offence, but im sure you got the wrong impression of going to church when u see your dad." if you're going to say having a religion is "stupid" n all that, then y not say the society you follow is stupid and fcked up?"I don't 'follow' society. If I did then I would be an MTV watching zombie, a women oogling freak, I would vote, go to church, and participate in other things peopple in society typically do. And as a note: I do say that society is full of problems. Even if I didn't, you can assume I think so by reading my posts.if u havent realized wat u just said, ill tell you. yes i can see that you dont follow the society you live in because you disaprove of it, but then what do you follow? trust me, "nothing" and " no one" does not count as a valid answer." u cant, because the society u believed in made u who u are right now."I just did. You are right about something though. Society did shape me. I am like a byproduct of a nuclear power plant. They got everything wrong with me. I'm not their perfect little clone.yes i can tell that you really hate the society u grew up in now, and that they've really messed you up. that does not mean you dont believe in anything, nor does it mean you dont have a guidance you can follow. " to you it's a good society to be in, but maybe to others it's a piece of shyt."Other way around." we're all guided, and we all follow someone, or something."Unless you count following yourself, then you're wrongim not wrong, and if u think hard enough u'll learn to understand." many follow religions to choose their fate, and make their choices;"You mean to have their fate's chosen for them and the responsibilities of choosing between right and wrong somebody else's.yes, that was my mistake. many let their fate tell them wat to do." some chooses to follow the society they live in and believe in all the media crap given to them."Correction: ALL chooses to follow the society they live in and believe in all the media crap given to them.u cant say everyone chooses to follow society, because that can create conflicts. some people dont believe in religion, and some dont believe in media. only a rare few can make the choices themselves, and i dont think anyone in this forum is one of them." i can already tell you're not one of those rare few just by the way you talk. a person who can make his/her own destiny does not have to prove anything, or judge anyone, as long as they know they are better than u."You would be right, except for one thing: I'm not trying to prove anything. I'm in it for the thrill of the argument. I'm an argumenative person. It's intellectually stimulating. On the judging people note: You're wrong. God (assuming he exists) judges people all the time. What do you think the Heaven/Hell thing is for?*Sigh* Ok, that's done. Try to type better, it was hard to decipher that.1. So basically you like the competition of showing who's better at arguing. it give you a "thrill" because you have to think hard in an argument, so you dont lose. you want to prove that you're very capable of handling with arguments and that should be ez for you if u think u're one of those few who can determine their destiny.2. God is perfect, and he's also trying to help humans by purifying their hearts. he has the choice of judging or not judging people, and he chooses to judge our actions because we are his creation. he wants us to be perfect, just like him. he wants a world of perfect human beings while the rest can rot away in hell. btw why would you care what god does if u dont believe in him.3. i dont try to type well in my messages, as long as i get the point across.It's stupid to believe in something that has absolutely no sensical backing behind it. At least evolution tries to come up with answers and reasons. Religion simply gives all of the credit to something that might or might not even be real. Easy to claim your right when nobody can disprove you and you have an answer to everything.haha u guess i shouldve checked if there was more new posts sooner.
Edited by Hayasaka, 01 March 2007 - 06:20 AM.
#243
Guest_Pirate1019
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Posted 01 March 2007 - 06:20 AM
Really? If so, then it's a bit...anticlimictic.We're pretty much in a agreement then
#244
Guest_amateursuperhero
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Posted 01 March 2007 - 07:03 AM
I think an essential element to good arguments is realizing when they are over.Really? If so, then it's a bit...anticlimictic.
Edited by amateursuperhero, 01 March 2007 - 07:03 AM.
#245
Guest_Pirate1019
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Posted 01 March 2007 - 07:09 AM
In response to hayasaka's post. (too long to quote)"im not sure u know wat i meant by we're all being guided by someone, or something. let me ask you a question... how can u choose not to listen to others and survive in today's world?" Common sense. It isn't hard to survive on earth. What it is hard to do is thrive here. I suppose teachers might count, but in my experience, most, if not all weren't teaching me to help guide me or anything. They were just doing their job."sure they didnt care if you go to church or not, but their actions and the situations they were in guided u into thinking that church is pointless. no offence, but im sure you got the wrong impression of going to church when u see your dad."Almost, but not quite. They didn't lead me to believe church or religion was pointless. They simply let the issue go unnoticed and left me (metaphorically speaking) stranded and left to my own designs. My dad really didn't give me any impression of church. I didn't even learn he went to church until I was old enough to realize that his parents are the stereotypical religious old couple."if u havent realized wat u just said, ill tell you. yes i can see that you dont follow the society you live in because you disaprove of it, but then what do you follow? trust me, "nothing" and " no one" does not count as a valid answer."It isn't 'nothing' or 'no one'. I follow my own desires, hopes, dreams, wishes, instincts, and logic."yes i can tell that you really hate the society u grew up in now, and that they've really messed you up. that does not mean you dont believe in anything, nor does it mean you dont have a guidance you can follow."I believe in self choice, responsability for one's actions and lots of other things. I just don't believe in things like religion or blind loyalty (to anything, not just religion).I do have guidance I can follow. I choose not to follow them. I could go to church if I wished. There's one across the street from my neighborhood. I could join a political party or become a fanatic political activist. I could do any number of things, but I decied to ignore all of them and simple concentrate on what I want to."yes, that was my mistake. many let their fate tell them wat to do."Which is a sad thing. It's dissapointing to see something as ingenuitive as the human mind being hampered by things that that limit one's thinking."u cant say everyone chooses to follow society, because that can create conflicts. some people dont believe in religion, and some dont believe in media. only a rare few can make the choices themselves, and i dont think anyone in this forum is one of them."Well, obviously not everybody, but I felt a stronger word then 'some' was needed. 'All' was probably a bit excessive."1. So basically you like the competition of showing who's better at arguing. it give you a "thrill" because you have to think hard in an argument, so you dont lose. you want to prove that you're very capable of handling with arguments and that should be ez for you if u think u're one of those few who can determine their destiny." It gives me a thrill, or sorts, but it's all sport to me. I don't care who wins or loses. I just go with my gut instinct. Sometimes I win, sometimes I make myself look really stupid, but none of that matters since we are still just talking."2. God is perfect, and he's also trying to help humans by purifying their hearts. he has the choice of judging or not judging people, and he chooses to judge our actions because we are his creation. he wants us to be perfect, just like him. he wants a world of perfect human beings while the rest can rot away in hell. btw why would you care what god does if u dont believe in him."I understand the desire he would have to purify people heart's and feeling responsible for us since we're his creation, but his solution doesn't make much sense. He is going to try to scare, through threats of Hell, everyone to be perfect, or as close as we can to perfect. But sinners will always populate the earth since they aren't judged until death. Until death they walk the earth like all rightieous citizens. The only way to mkae earth's inhabitant's perfect is to either make every potential sinner stillborn as they come out of the womb, or reduce mankind's intelligence and sophistication until we live like animals, purely by instinct and biological programming, where there are no morals, or right and wrong. Only survival of the fittest.The reason I'm making these points, but don't believe in god is because for the sake of argument, I'm assuming God exists."3. i dont try to type well in my messages, as long as i get the point across."I wish I could be that lenient on myself."haha u guess i shouldve checked if there was more new posts sooner."Nah, I can't expect everyone on the internet to stop everything they are doing and respond to my rambling instantly.What a lot of typing!
Yeah, too bad I'm not good at that particular part. I had fun though. This is one of the better debates/arguments I've had in a while. And it didn't end in a lock or ban too.I think an essential element to good arguments is realizing when they are over.
Edited by Pirate1019, 01 March 2007 - 07:10 AM.
#246
Guest_kuroe702
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Posted 01 March 2007 - 07:24 AM
I don't believe in Evolutionwell... to be exact, I belive in micro evolution (we get taller, stronger... etc) but not macro evolution (ape become man...)if we're from apes.. then why there are still apes on the planet? did some of the apes miss the evolution time or something?
#247
Guest_amateursuperhero
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Posted 01 March 2007 - 07:31 AM
Wow are you serious? It blows my mind that after a hundred years people are still make the same objection that was handled by Wallace and Darwin themselves. Evolution does not say that apes evolved from man, it says that both species have a common ancestor.I don't believe in Evolutionwell... to be exact, I belive in micro evolution (we get taller, stronger... etc) but not macro evolution (ape become man...)if we're from apes.. then why there are still apes on the planet? did some of the apes miss the evolution time or something?
#248
Guest_sliverdragon
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Posted 01 March 2007 - 11:22 AM
dun care in this kind of thinks POINTS were deducted for this post by Bish
#249
Guest_osin3
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Posted 01 March 2007 - 02:21 PM
well who teh hell would believe in god? if god was the creator then who created him? he had to come from somewere so were? if someone shows me then i might believe in god
#250
Guest_Ganzschutzgruppe
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Posted 01 March 2007 - 02:53 PM
I'm sorry if I seem out of it, but I couldn't tell if this topic was about humans or animals. If it's about humans, I don't believe we came from a monkey. I mean, I just don't believe it. One visit to a zoo and maybe you'll get what I mean, but...Ah, if it's about animals, I don't really think evolution has something to do with their growth over these millions of years, but I think they just changed to adapt to their environment. I do recall Alligators (or crocs) are the oldest of their type (or kind).But I'm not an expert in this sort of thing, so this is just my humble opinion. Please don't bash me T_T
